[This transcript has been automatically generated by a digital software and will therefore  contain errors and typos. Please kindly take note of this and only rely on the digital transcript for reference.]

Ted Teo  0:00

Hi guys and welcome back to the Ted Teo business show the best place for actionable advice for entrepreneurs. In today’s episode, we have Isaac Hogue, who is a good friend of mine whom I met during my university days in law school. Isaac is a serial entrepreneur who is a qualified lawyer and an experienced m&a advisor was formerly from Deloitte as the co founder of osnap, an event space instant photobooth business which provides customized backdrops and props for his customers. Isaac, we’ll be sharing with us today how he grew his side hustle into a full business. Hey, Isaac, thank you for joining us today.

 

Isaac Ho  0:30

Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure.

 

Ted Teo  0:33

So is it your serial entrepreneur? Now, can you share? What do you find most of the link about your work running businesses?

 

Isaac Ho  0:39

I think the most fulfilling part is being able to do what you want, and having the flexibility to experiment and validate your ideas. That kind of freedom is something you only get if you

 

Ted Teo  0:50

run your own business is there’s something very powerful and creative about entrepreneurship that draws many of us in. Now let’s take some time to dive into your business of stamp, which I understand is a photobooth business which you started doing the time we first met in law school. Could you share with us a bit about that?

 

Isaac Ho  1:05

So I run a photobooth company that’s called osnap. Right, what we do is we provide photobooth solutions and marketing solutions to our clients beat a marketing event or beat a private event. And our services are really about photo taking and printing of photos on the spot. Could be a brand, it could be a company celebrating their anniversary, or it could be someone’s birthday, anything the only kind of events that we haven’t done, our funeral

 

Ted Teo  1:29

is done in your bucket. That’s still on a bucket list, right? But hopefully we’ll get there. Who knows. Right?

 

So also has been running for about seven to eight years now. So did you expect such longevity in the business? And how did you come about this idea in the first place?

 

Isaac Ho  1:44

It was by accident, actually. So my business partner and I were working on something else. It’s similar to this website called TaskRabbit, then we weren’t getting anywhere because we were still in school. And we didn’t know anything about starting a business and running a platform. So it didn’t get anywhere. And I haven’t chanced upon the idea of photobooth. And it was trending at the time. So I asked my business partner, like, would you want to try it because between us, we had a whole set of camera gear that we could easily use. And that’s how it started. In a week’s time, we got our first event in school. So guys, I

 

Ted Teo  2:17

think just shared about the importance of experimentation. And of course, the ability to pivot, when you’re a new entrepreneur pay a lot of attention to experimentation and the skills that you pick up along the way, which will definitely be translatable to your next project, which could be the next big thing. So back to you. Isaac, you mentioned when you first started your portable business, the industry was trending. So how did you compete with the incumbents back then, you were not the first in the industry. So you do not have first mover budget. So what did you do?

 

Isaac Ho  2:44

Yeah, we weren’t there were incumbents in the space. So what we did was to study them, and then to identify our own competitive edge, which essentially was about customizing the look and feel of every experience for our clients. So what I mean by that is that the two main things to affordable experience, one is the backdrop, and the other is the props. So what we focused on was to differentiate ourselves by offering a very customized look for every customer that we had, and it will be tailored to the look and feel of that event, the backdrop will have design elements that will reflect the theme and the props will do the same. And there was our edge for quite a long time because it wasn’t done at the time. And people were actually learning from us how we did it at scale.

 

Ted Teo  3:29

So despite not being the first in market, you basically managed to edge away into it by finding your own niche and doubling down on it.

 

Isaac Ho  3:36

Yeah, exactly that and it felt great for people to come to you and say, Oh, we are getting you engaging you because we like how your portfolio looks. And it’s nice being recognized for that, because it tells you that your ideas, your efforts are validated and you’re doing something right. And that is something that quite a lot of our competitors, and even our the incumbents didn’t actually try to email it, they kind of give us a space to really milk it and for us to develop our ideas even further, to continue to have the edge.

 

Ted Teo  4:01

So guys, those are very powerful words that I just shared. Despite not being the first in the industry, he still managed to plant his flag in the industry itself, a bit of innovation and grid. So if you’re planning to compete in a competitive market, why not take some time today to think about what are the things that you can do differently, just a bit of innovation that could maybe set you apart from your competitors to give you that edge that Isaac found as well. So as that you grew this as a side hustle in school, but at what point? Did you realize that this business was real? And it was something that you could commit your time to?

 

Isaac Ho  4:31

Yeah, that’s a great question. Because, you know, at some point in time, you got to decide, oh, it’s more than a side gig and I got to spend more time, I got to spend more money to expand it and to grow and write good marketing costs or staff costs. So to answer your question at that point, where we felt that this could be something bigger was when we felt that we had to start hiring people, because it’s actually beyond just the two of us when you start a lookout for team when you feel that you need a team to continue this and to make this Are you starting to realize that this is more than just your side hustle, you know, you could employ people, you got to incur the cost, you got to bring in enough revenue to cover that cost. And yeah, so that was my barometer for knowing that this is more than just a hobby. Now it sounds like you and your business man have a very good working relationship.

 

Ted Teo  5:19

But in your view, how important is it to have a business partner when you’re running your first business.

 

Isaac Ho  5:25

So for me, personally, I feel that business partners is integral to running any business because number one, he or she is your number one sound board, right? If ideas they need to bounce off, that person is the first person you go to. And when you have some sort of consensus, when when you have someone backing you up, it, it does a lot of good for you. I think I need a business partner, because you need someone who is there with you at any time of the day, at the same level of similar levels of commitment, as you will put in the blood, sweat, and time to make it happen. He and I shared a history of working together and our mindset really was let’s just have fun. And we were in college. Right? So let’s just have fun. Let’s see where this takes us. It’s really important to enjoy the process and see where this takes us.

 

Ted Teo  6:19

Now you clearly benefited a lot from having a very good business partner review every step of the way. Do you have any advice for new entrepreneurs on how you can find a good partner like you did,

 

Isaac Ho  6:26

I had a good understanding of what he is as a person, or how we work together as a team, your business partner should not be another you, he or she should be someone who brings complementary skills to really help you with it. The focus is not just about the friendship that you have, you can be good friends, but it is a lot more than just being a good friend. When it comes to business, we need the right dynamic, you need to have the right thinking between the both of you to run a business together, we can be good friends, but good friends don’t necessarily become good business partners. So what I mean by that is, this person should be someone who you’re comfortable confronting and should be someone who you really feel comfortable speaking your mind. Because at some point in time, you’re going to have tough decisions to make. You’re gonna disagree, you’re gonna have to confront the other person. And can your partnership withstand that that’s the critical part. And just being good friends doesn’t mean that you can actually live through those things. And yeah, beyond that, it’s really about trust. Can I trust this person to be there for me? And can I trust this person to be there to do what’s right by the business? And to do what’s right by me? Yeah, I think that’s really important. It’s a judgment of character. That sounds just like dating. Yeah, exactly. You’re right, the thing, you spend a lot of time with this person.

 

Ted Teo  7:42

So guys, this is a very crucial point that Isaac just shared. When you’re starting a business, of course, you want to find somebody who can work well with you. But don’t forget, it goes further into debt, the person must have complementary skills to you, it should not be another view. And most importantly, this person must be somebody you are comfortable confronting your issues, and working them out. Just like dating. In order to have a healthy relationship with your business partner, you must communicate. So ideally, the person that you’re building your business with is someone that you can communicate well with, and trust as well. Now, let’s talk a little bit more about how you differentiate your product. I think the listeners at home would really benefit from this, or customization sounds like a great idea. I’m sure it took a lot of time and effort on the part of you and your business partner to make it work, which is why your competitors probably didn’t want to follow suit. How did you continue to scale your business when this is such a time intensive process.

 

Isaac Ho  8:30

So what we did in terms of customization was to print design elements that we would pin onto our backdrops. So we will actually print those same elements on foam board with our commercial printers, and we cut them by hand that saves us a bit of money. If we had continued with the methods that we were using. When we started this, it wouldn’t have been sustainable because we were doing a lot of things by hand, which require a lot of time, which require a lot of effort. But to keep costs manageable at a start, you really just got to put in your time and sweat, right because hiring people cost money. Outsourcing costs money. So it really was about validating the idea to start, there was a priority. And only after we knew that we had something going on, do we have the confidence and comfort to outsource and spend extra money knowing that we will be able to cover those costs. When we scale by eventually we found out about this thing called die cutting. And eventually when we had some traction and some confidence that this was the right way to go. We engage our commercial printers to do die cutting for us. It It costs extra, but it was done a lot better than cutting by hand and it wasn’t exorbitantly expensive to have those things done. And we felt that spending those monies would really free up our time to grow the business and to spend our time on things that were more productive. That’s why we went and it turned out great. And that was such an enjoyable process.

 

Ted Teo  9:56

Now there was an amazing story you just shared. So basically at a start, you got your hands hands dirty with your partner, you did everything from designing and cutting out the props. But when you skilled, you actually outsource this to a third party who could do it better or good price. And this freed up your time to do the things that you do best. And that’s to grow your business.

 

Isaac Ho  10:13

Yes, but efficiency right is about doing what you do best. And to prioritize what you do best. Some call it the 8020 rule, which also applies here, he spent 20% of the time on achieving 80% that will bring in your revenue, and you

 

Ted Teo  10:28

will probably be able to outsource things so well, because you got your hands dirty to start. So you knew how things are supposed to be done and how they can be done as well.

 

Isaac Ho  10:36

You’re absolutely right about that. The whole point of it is not to be an expert in the particular field or in that particular domain. It’s about knowing enough so that you can have a meaningful conversation with whoever you outsource your work to for a few reasons. Number one is to not get scammed by whoever you’re outsourcing to. So you know, we were just talking about web development. And if you have no idea how web development works, and if you outsource your web development, from the get go, there’s a risk that your developers might be quoting you for things that you don’t actually need, or maybe costing you way more than they should have, because you don’t know what they’re talking about. And you just be like, yeah, you know what you solve my problem, I have to pay whatever you’re quoting. So you didn’t do your homework. So getting your hands dirty is bothering your homework, understanding what space you’re playing in, and what you actually need from others. And you don’t have to get to a level where you can actually do that work professionally or you know, at a very high technical standard. But you need to know at least what’s going on so that you can have a meaningful conversation that will eventually reward you. It’s the bare minimum if you if you want to get things done to know what you’re talking about. Now, guys,

 

Ted Teo  11:44

I fully agree with what Isaac just said, the business is your baby. So you must do your best to learn every aspect of it. You don’t have to be the knowledge expert, but make sure that you know enough so that when you’re communicating with your vendors, or your employees, that they are not able to smoke you or overcharge you, or pull a fast one over you. Now Isaac, can you share with us what was your hardest lesson learned running this business,

 

Isaac Ho  12:07

but a hardest lesson learned was managing cash flow. So why I say it was a hard lesson learned it was because my business partner, I actually had to inject extra capital into the business to manage our cash flow. And I would attribute that to a lack of knowledge in accounting and how things actually work in the real world. So you have credit terms, if your customers to whom you give these credit terms to because you’re selling on credit, and then you have your suppliers to whom you’re paying monies. So your p&l is one thing, right? On your p&l, it might look like your business is profitable, because PnL doesn’t take into account the timing of payments. But the crunch really comes in when in the most extreme of situations, your customers are not paying you on time. But you have to pay your employees, your vendors, your landlord on time. And when we’re talking about bigger brands, who are nonetheless good paymasters, because they eventually pay. These are people who actually are more predisposed to stretching their credit terms in relation to you. So they are stretching their payments to us, because it helps their cash flow. But they will mean that it takes a longer time for us to collect our money. So what it means that your standard credit terms to them, maybe 30 days, but they may take 90 days to pay you. So we have to manage that properly, you know, be it by negotiating with them or to collect high prepayment. It’s just about negotiating. And you don’t always get what you want. But that’s just the reality of it. If your customers simply don’t pay you, then you got to think of different ways to manage your cash flow. But yeah, cash flow is a huge thing. And it’s something that most people don’t actually understand what it means until they do it. What does he mean by managing a working capital? What is working capital? These are things that you can learn on the textbooks. But in practice, it involves more than just accounting. You know, it was more than just theory is about dealing with people is about dealing with counterparties, who sometimes mean, just want to make life difficult for you because they have their own interest to serve. So that was a very hard lesson because we had to put money in and then we took a deep and hard look at what we’re doing wrong. And then we modify some practices to improve our cash flow.

 

Ted Teo  14:20

Yeah, yes, I fully agree. Just because your profit and loss statement or your p&l looks good. That does mean that you are doing well. You must manage your cash flow, because that is the lifeblood of your business. So just because you just sold $100,000 worth of goods, guess what, you may not have the money to pay your employees until your customer actually pays you. And that’s where COVID comes in. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, I highly encourage you to please take a look at it over Google. Get yourself educated to protect yourself. Now I said let’s take a little bit of time to talk about your customers. How did you grow your business by getting new and bigger customers along the way.

 

Isaac Ho  14:55

So it’s about convincing them that they can rely on you to get a job that They have not worked with you, and they have not worked with you. And this is really the opportunity and your opportunity to prove your worth. So how would you do that with a new customer with whom you’ve had not had a relationship with, with whom you’ve had not had any work done, it’s really about proving your worth. And I would say one actionable advice is to catalog all your passwords, big brands or big brands, because they have a reputation. And they have a reputation that they need to preserve. And they have a certain professionalism, and also an expectation as to how things work. At the end of the day, they have the bargaining power, and they are engaging you because they need to get something done. And what that means is that you need to be reliable to them. So whatever you promise, whatever you said, you can do, you must do, and you must follow through with it. So I think it’s about developing that kind of culture within your own company to deliver what you promised on and to really show your customers that you can be relied on even when things go wrong, and it’s not your fault. Right, it’s about problem solving is about adding value for them. It differs from business, a business, right, whatever space you’re in, find a way that you can catalog your work, so that you can easily convey that to your prospective customer. How you’re reliable, how you can get the job done, and how you can do it well for them. In our particular case, it was about choosing good photos that we can show to our clients choosing notable projects where we felt that we have excelled in and we are happy to share with them. For those who can see that you’re doing good work from your portfolio, they will come to a level of comfort at which they’re happy to work with you even for the first time. Right? Sometimes they even break away from their previous partners or previous vendors to say, you know what, I’m willing to give you a shot because I like what I see. Right? So do spend a good amount of time and effort, thinking about how you want to catalog your past projects, your past experiences with previous clients, because those are the assets that you need to convince future clients and future leads that you are the person they should choose. So cataloging

 

Ted Teo  17:14

your past work and showing them to your newer prospective customers is really paid off.

 

Isaac Ho  17:19

Yeah, exactly. Sometimes, if we are lazy, we don’t put in the effort, then then to catalogue our work one year on, definitely going to look at some of the things that you’ve done a year ago. So when you’re done with a project, you review it, you like it, find ways to catalog it, be it through photos, videos, or testimonials from your ex clients, do it have the discipline to do it, because it’s really important is going to pay itself in time to come when we have to convince someone else who’s going to ask you hard questions like, you know, what, can you show me your portfolio? Right? Or like, you know, can you tell me what you have done in the past. And you need to have this whole arsenal of things that you can show to any prospective client, so that you can convince them that Yeah, even though your particular project is not something that I’ve done in the past, it might be a different configuration, or a different set of requirements, or based on the precedent that I’ve built up based on a portfolio that I can show you, I think you can have the confidence in me that I’m gonna find new solutions that will work for you. Any of they, it’s really about proving to your cause your your leads, right, how you’re different, and why they should put their money with you. And not someone else who’s offering it for cheaper. So I say what’s your biggest struggle right now. I mean, it’s COVID, right. And as being an event space, it means that events are not happening. But these are things that we can’t control, they are challenged, and the only way around it is to find ways to to tackle the issue and to find ways to pivot and to find a new demand that we can tap on. So we’ve started a sub brand called yo Mo, which is called Yoni Mary once and what essentially we’re trying to do is to bring everything indoors, because events are not happening. So we’re bringing everything indoors, and we’re inviting couples to come and do their pre wedding shoots with us and to tap on our previous experience with foldables. Right? It’s all about bringing a fun experience to couples. Now I say before I let you go, what is your number one takeaway for our listeners, my number one takeaway is that you never know what you try. You can have all the ideas in the world, you can have the best idea in the world, you can have the best dreams, but until you try, you never know what’s gonna work and you never know what you like to do. So try get your hands dirty until you find something that works for you and makes you happy and makes you feel that it’s something worth committing to. And then that’s where you really know that you’ve got something going on and the rest is going to flow

 

Ted Teo  19:39

nicely. Thank you for joining us and sharing your amazing advice. Guys, if you enjoyed today’s interviewed and make sure you subscribe to this show on Apple, Spotify and Google podcasts. That’s all for me today. This is Ted Teo, signing off.

 

[This transcript has been automatically generated by a digital software and will therefore  contain errors and typos. Please kindly take note of this and only rely on the digital transcript for reference.]

Ted Teo  0:00 

Hi guys and welcome back to the Ted Teo business show the best place for actionable advice for entrepreneurs. In today’s episode, we have Isaac Hogue, who is a good friend of mine whom I met during my university days in law school. Isaac is a serial entrepreneur who is a qualified lawyer and an experienced m&a advisor was formerly from Deloitte as the co founder of osnap, an event space instant photobooth business which provides customized backdrops and props for his customers. Isaac, we’ll be sharing with us today how he grew his side hustle into a full business. Hey, Isaac, thank you for joining us today.

 

Isaac Ho  0:30 

Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure.

 

Ted Teo  0:33 

So is it your serial entrepreneur? Now, can you share? What do you find most of the link about your work running businesses?

 

Isaac Ho  0:39 

I think the most fulfilling part is being able to do what you want, and having the flexibility to experiment and validate your ideas. That kind of freedom is something you only get if you

 

Ted Teo  0:50 

run your own business is there’s something very powerful and creative about entrepreneurship that draws many of us in. Now let’s take some time to dive into your business of stamp, which I understand is a photobooth business which you started doing the time we first met in law school. Could you share with us a bit about that?

 

Isaac Ho  1:05 

So I run a photobooth company that’s called osnap. Right, what we do is we provide photobooth solutions and marketing solutions to our clients beat a marketing event or beat a private event. And our services are really about photo taking and printing of photos on the spot. Could be a brand, it could be a company celebrating their anniversary, or it could be someone’s birthday, anything the only kind of events that we haven’t done, our funeral

 

Ted Teo  1:29 

is done in your bucket. That’s still on a bucket list, right? But hopefully we’ll get there. Who knows. Right?

 

So also has been running for about seven to eight years now. So did you expect such longevity in the business? And how did you come about this idea in the first place?

 

Isaac Ho  1:44 

It was by accident, actually. So my business partner and I were working on something else. It’s similar to this website called TaskRabbit, then we weren’t getting anywhere because we were still in school. And we didn’t know anything about starting a business and running a platform. So it didn’t get anywhere. And I haven’t chanced upon the idea of photobooth. And it was trending at the time. So I asked my business partner, like, would you want to try it because between us, we had a whole set of camera gear that we could easily use. And that’s how it started. In a week’s time, we got our first event in school. So guys, I

 

Ted Teo  2:17 

think just shared about the importance of experimentation. And of course, the ability to pivot, when you’re a new entrepreneur pay a lot of attention to experimentation and the skills that you pick up along the way, which will definitely be translatable to your next project, which could be the next big thing. So back to you. Isaac, you mentioned when you first started your portable business, the industry was trending. So how did you compete with the incumbents back then, you were not the first in the industry. So you do not have first mover budget. So what did you do?

 

Isaac Ho  2:44 

Yeah, we weren’t there were incumbents in the space. So what we did was to study them, and then to identify our own competitive edge, which essentially was about customizing the look and feel of every experience for our clients. So what I mean by that is that the two main things to affordable experience, one is the backdrop, and the other is the props. So what we focused on was to differentiate ourselves by offering a very customized look for every customer that we had, and it will be tailored to the look and feel of that event, the backdrop will have design elements that will reflect the theme and the props will do the same. And there was our edge for quite a long time because it wasn’t done at the time. And people were actually learning from us how we did it at scale.

 

Ted Teo  3:29 

So despite not being the first in market, you basically managed to edge away into it by finding your own niche and doubling down on it.

 

Isaac Ho  3:36 

Yeah, exactly that and it felt great for people to come to you and say, Oh, we are getting you engaging you because we like how your portfolio looks. And it’s nice being recognized for that, because it tells you that your ideas, your efforts are validated and you’re doing something right. And that is something that quite a lot of our competitors, and even our the incumbents didn’t actually try to email it, they kind of give us a space to really milk it and for us to develop our ideas even further, to continue to have the edge.

 

Ted Teo  4:01 

So guys, those are very powerful words that I just shared. Despite not being the first in the industry, he still managed to plant his flag in the industry itself, a bit of innovation and grid. So if you’re planning to compete in a competitive market, why not take some time today to think about what are the things that you can do differently, just a bit of innovation that could maybe set you apart from your competitors to give you that edge that Isaac found as well. So as that you grew this as a side hustle in school, but at what point? Did you realize that this business was real? And it was something that you could commit your time to?

 

Isaac Ho  4:31 

Yeah, that’s a great question. Because, you know, at some point in time, you got to decide, oh, it’s more than a side gig and I got to spend more time, I got to spend more money to expand it and to grow and write good marketing costs or staff costs. So to answer your question at that point, where we felt that this could be something bigger was when we felt that we had to start hiring people, because it’s actually beyond just the two of us when you start a lookout for team when you feel that you need a team to continue this and to make this Are you starting to realize that this is more than just your side hustle, you know, you could employ people, you got to incur the cost, you got to bring in enough revenue to cover that cost. And yeah, so that was my barometer for knowing that this is more than just a hobby. Now it sounds like you and your business man have a very good working relationship.

 

Ted Teo  5:19 

But in your view, how important is it to have a business partner when you’re running your first business.

 

Isaac Ho  5:25 

So for me, personally, I feel that business partners is integral to running any business because number one, he or she is your number one sound board, right? If ideas they need to bounce off, that person is the first person you go to. And when you have some sort of consensus, when when you have someone backing you up, it, it does a lot of good for you. I think I need a business partner, because you need someone who is there with you at any time of the day, at the same level of similar levels of commitment, as you will put in the blood, sweat, and time to make it happen. He and I shared a history of working together and our mindset really was let’s just have fun. And we were in college. Right? So let’s just have fun. Let’s see where this takes us. It’s really important to enjoy the process and see where this takes us.

 

Ted Teo  6:19 

Now you clearly benefited a lot from having a very good business partner review every step of the way. Do you have any advice for new entrepreneurs on how you can find a good partner like you did,

 

Isaac Ho  6:26 

I had a good understanding of what he is as a person, or how we work together as a team, your business partner should not be another you, he or she should be someone who brings complementary skills to really help you with it. The focus is not just about the friendship that you have, you can be good friends, but it is a lot more than just being a good friend. When it comes to business, we need the right dynamic, you need to have the right thinking between the both of you to run a business together, we can be good friends, but good friends don’t necessarily become good business partners. So what I mean by that is, this person should be someone who you’re comfortable confronting and should be someone who you really feel comfortable speaking your mind. Because at some point in time, you’re going to have tough decisions to make. You’re gonna disagree, you’re gonna have to confront the other person. And can your partnership withstand that that’s the critical part. And just being good friends doesn’t mean that you can actually live through those things. And yeah, beyond that, it’s really about trust. Can I trust this person to be there for me? And can I trust this person to be there to do what’s right by the business? And to do what’s right by me? Yeah, I think that’s really important. It’s a judgment of character. That sounds just like dating. Yeah, exactly. You’re right, the thing, you spend a lot of time with this person.

 

Ted Teo  7:42 

So guys, this is a very crucial point that Isaac just shared. When you’re starting a business, of course, you want to find somebody who can work well with you. But don’t forget, it goes further into debt, the person must have complementary skills to you, it should not be another view. And most importantly, this person must be somebody you are comfortable confronting your issues, and working them out. Just like dating. In order to have a healthy relationship with your business partner, you must communicate. So ideally, the person that you’re building your business with is someone that you can communicate well with, and trust as well. Now, let’s talk a little bit more about how you differentiate your product. I think the listeners at home would really benefit from this, or customization sounds like a great idea. I’m sure it took a lot of time and effort on the part of you and your business partner to make it work, which is why your competitors probably didn’t want to follow suit. How did you continue to scale your business when this is such a time intensive process.

 

Isaac Ho  8:30 

So what we did in terms of customization was to print design elements that we would pin onto our backdrops. So we will actually print those same elements on foam board with our commercial printers, and we cut them by hand that saves us a bit of money. If we had continued with the methods that we were using. When we started this, it wouldn’t have been sustainable because we were doing a lot of things by hand, which require a lot of time, which require a lot of effort. But to keep costs manageable at a start, you really just got to put in your time and sweat, right because hiring people cost money. Outsourcing costs money. So it really was about validating the idea to start, there was a priority. And only after we knew that we had something going on, do we have the confidence and comfort to outsource and spend extra money knowing that we will be able to cover those costs. When we scale by eventually we found out about this thing called die cutting. And eventually when we had some traction and some confidence that this was the right way to go. We engage our commercial printers to do die cutting for us. It It costs extra, but it was done a lot better than cutting by hand and it wasn’t exorbitantly expensive to have those things done. And we felt that spending those monies would really free up our time to grow the business and to spend our time on things that were more productive. That’s why we went and it turned out great. And that was such an enjoyable process.

 

Ted Teo  9:56 

Now there was an amazing story you just shared. So basically at a start, you got your hands hands dirty with your partner, you did everything from designing and cutting out the props. But when you skilled, you actually outsource this to a third party who could do it better or good price. And this freed up your time to do the things that you do best. And that’s to grow your business.

 

Isaac Ho  10:13 

Yes, but efficiency right is about doing what you do best. And to prioritize what you do best. Some call it the 8020 rule, which also applies here, he spent 20% of the time on achieving 80% that will bring in your revenue, and you

 

Ted Teo  10:28 

will probably be able to outsource things so well, because you got your hands dirty to start. So you knew how things are supposed to be done and how they can be done as well.

 

Isaac Ho  10:36 

You’re absolutely right about that. The whole point of it is not to be an expert in the particular field or in that particular domain. It’s about knowing enough so that you can have a meaningful conversation with whoever you outsource your work to for a few reasons. Number one is to not get scammed by whoever you’re outsourcing to. So you know, we were just talking about web development. And if you have no idea how web development works, and if you outsource your web development, from the get go, there’s a risk that your developers might be quoting you for things that you don’t actually need, or maybe costing you way more than they should have, because you don’t know what they’re talking about. And you just be like, yeah, you know what you solve my problem, I have to pay whatever you’re quoting. So you didn’t do your homework. So getting your hands dirty is bothering your homework, understanding what space you’re playing in, and what you actually need from others. And you don’t have to get to a level where you can actually do that work professionally or you know, at a very high technical standard. But you need to know at least what’s going on so that you can have a meaningful conversation that will eventually reward you. It’s the bare minimum if you if you want to get things done to know what you’re talking about. Now, guys,

 

Ted Teo  11:44 

I fully agree with what Isaac just said, the business is your baby. So you must do your best to learn every aspect of it. You don’t have to be the knowledge expert, but make sure that you know enough so that when you’re communicating with your vendors, or your employees, that they are not able to smoke you or overcharge you, or pull a fast one over you. Now Isaac, can you share with us what was your hardest lesson learned running this business,

 

Isaac Ho  12:07 

but a hardest lesson learned was managing cash flow. So why I say it was a hard lesson learned it was because my business partner, I actually had to inject extra capital into the business to manage our cash flow. And I would attribute that to a lack of knowledge in accounting and how things actually work in the real world. So you have credit terms, if your customers to whom you give these credit terms to because you’re selling on credit, and then you have your suppliers to whom you’re paying monies. So your p&l is one thing, right? On your p&l, it might look like your business is profitable, because PnL doesn’t take into account the timing of payments. But the crunch really comes in when in the most extreme of situations, your customers are not paying you on time. But you have to pay your employees, your vendors, your landlord on time. And when we’re talking about bigger brands, who are nonetheless good paymasters, because they eventually pay. These are people who actually are more predisposed to stretching their credit terms in relation to you. So they are stretching their payments to us, because it helps their cash flow. But they will mean that it takes a longer time for us to collect our money. So what it means that your standard credit terms to them, maybe 30 days, but they may take 90 days to pay you. So we have to manage that properly, you know, be it by negotiating with them or to collect high prepayment. It’s just about negotiating. And you don’t always get what you want. But that’s just the reality of it. If your customers simply don’t pay you, then you got to think of different ways to manage your cash flow. But yeah, cash flow is a huge thing. And it’s something that most people don’t actually understand what it means until they do it. What does he mean by managing a working capital? What is working capital? These are things that you can learn on the textbooks. But in practice, it involves more than just accounting. You know, it was more than just theory is about dealing with people is about dealing with counterparties, who sometimes mean, just want to make life difficult for you because they have their own interest to serve. So that was a very hard lesson because we had to put money in and then we took a deep and hard look at what we’re doing wrong. And then we modify some practices to improve our cash flow.

 

Ted Teo  14:20 

Yeah, yes, I fully agree. Just because your profit and loss statement or your p&l looks good. That does mean that you are doing well. You must manage your cash flow, because that is the lifeblood of your business. So just because you just sold $100,000 worth of goods, guess what, you may not have the money to pay your employees until your customer actually pays you. And that’s where COVID comes in. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, I highly encourage you to please take a look at it over Google. Get yourself educated to protect yourself. Now I said let’s take a little bit of time to talk about your customers. How did you grow your business by getting new and bigger customers along the way.

 

Isaac Ho  14:55 

So it’s about convincing them that they can rely on you to get a job that They have not worked with you, and they have not worked with you. And this is really the opportunity and your opportunity to prove your worth. So how would you do that with a new customer with whom you’ve had not had a relationship with, with whom you’ve had not had any work done, it’s really about proving your worth. And I would say one actionable advice is to catalog all your passwords, big brands or big brands, because they have a reputation. And they have a reputation that they need to preserve. And they have a certain professionalism, and also an expectation as to how things work. At the end of the day, they have the bargaining power, and they are engaging you because they need to get something done. And what that means is that you need to be reliable to them. So whatever you promise, whatever you said, you can do, you must do, and you must follow through with it. So I think it’s about developing that kind of culture within your own company to deliver what you promised on and to really show your customers that you can be relied on even when things go wrong, and it’s not your fault. Right, it’s about problem solving is about adding value for them. It differs from business, a business, right, whatever space you’re in, find a way that you can catalog your work, so that you can easily convey that to your prospective customer. How you’re reliable, how you can get the job done, and how you can do it well for them. In our particular case, it was about choosing good photos that we can show to our clients choosing notable projects where we felt that we have excelled in and we are happy to share with them. For those who can see that you’re doing good work from your portfolio, they will come to a level of comfort at which they’re happy to work with you even for the first time. Right? Sometimes they even break away from their previous partners or previous vendors to say, you know what, I’m willing to give you a shot because I like what I see. Right? So do spend a good amount of time and effort, thinking about how you want to catalog your past projects, your past experiences with previous clients, because those are the assets that you need to convince future clients and future leads that you are the person they should choose. So cataloging

 

Ted Teo  17:14 

your past work and showing them to your newer prospective customers is really paid off.

 

Isaac Ho  17:19 

Yeah, exactly. Sometimes, if we are lazy, we don’t put in the effort, then then to catalogue our work one year on, definitely going to look at some of the things that you’ve done a year ago. So when you’re done with a project, you review it, you like it, find ways to catalog it, be it through photos, videos, or testimonials from your ex clients, do it have the discipline to do it, because it’s really important is going to pay itself in time to come when we have to convince someone else who’s going to ask you hard questions like, you know, what, can you show me your portfolio? Right? Or like, you know, can you tell me what you have done in the past. And you need to have this whole arsenal of things that you can show to any prospective client, so that you can convince them that Yeah, even though your particular project is not something that I’ve done in the past, it might be a different configuration, or a different set of requirements, or based on the precedent that I’ve built up based on a portfolio that I can show you, I think you can have the confidence in me that I’m gonna find new solutions that will work for you. Any of they, it’s really about proving to your cause your your leads, right, how you’re different, and why they should put their money with you. And not someone else who’s offering it for cheaper. So I say what’s your biggest struggle right now. I mean, it’s COVID, right. And as being an event space, it means that events are not happening. But these are things that we can’t control, they are challenged, and the only way around it is to find ways to to tackle the issue and to find ways to pivot and to find a new demand that we can tap on. So we’ve started a sub brand called yo Mo, which is called Yoni Mary once and what essentially we’re trying to do is to bring everything indoors, because events are not happening. So we’re bringing everything indoors, and we’re inviting couples to come and do their pre wedding shoots with us and to tap on our previous experience with foldables. Right? It’s all about bringing a fun experience to couples. Now I say before I let you go, what is your number one takeaway for our listeners, my number one takeaway is that you never know what you try. You can have all the ideas in the world, you can have the best idea in the world, you can have the best dreams, but until you try, you never know what’s gonna work and you never know what you like to do. So try get your hands dirty until you find something that works for you and makes you happy and makes you feel that it’s something worth committing to. And then that’s where you really know that you’ve got something going on and the rest is going to flow

 

Ted Teo  19:39 

nicely. Thank you for joining us and sharing your amazing advice. Guys, if you enjoyed today’s interviewed and make sure you subscribe to this show on Apple, Spotify and Google podcasts. That’s all for me today. This is Ted Teo, signing off.