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00:02

Hello welcome to detect to business show the best place for extra more advice for entrepreneurs. This is Ted your friend and host speaking.

 

On today’s show we have Christian CEO healthcare venture capitalist was invested in in growing over 30 healthcare startups to date, and so grow his own healthcare startup the Vitruvia, which helps his clients managed to daily frustration of chronic pain, stiffness, and lack of mobility.

 

Today betrouwbare counts Tony Robbins, Red Sox legend David Ortiz and actor Danny Glover, who is best known for starring in The Lethal Weapon movies alongside note Gibson as his clients. So join us as Christian shares about his investment philosophies behind selecting startups.

 

The challenges that he faced growing his venture capital fund and the Truvia. And their workday is doing today growing healthcare startups, All these and more after this quick commercial break.

 

Hey, guys, is Ted, thank you so much for joining me on my show. And for all the support. If you ever found any value from the show, I would love if you could subscribe to the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts and share the show with somebody who find it useful as well.

 

All episodes Tuesday resources are available on tattoo comm so make sure you log on to tattoo.com That’s tdto.com. And make sure you sign up for the newsletter if you want to hear updates from me directly. And now let’s dive right in. Hey, Christian, thank you so much for joining us today is so nice to have you here. Pleasure to be here. Thank

 

01:22

you for having me. Now, Christian,

 

01:23

let’s start with a very simple icebreaker so we can all get to know you better. Please share verse, Who is Christian? See you when he isn’t working.

 

01:31

I’m a meditator, aspiring tennis player, son, oh, friend. And in mire of nature,

 

01:44

whoa. So you’ve been doing meditation for how long right now, Christian?

 

01:48

Ah, I started in 2013. And it was the only thing that I could find that would take out the avocado pit of stress that I used to wake up with every single morning.

 

02:02

So how many hours a day do you spend meditating Christian.

 

02:05

So in the morning, I have two to three meditations I like to do one is this idea of priming, which is you know, a borrowed from Tony Robbins, which is you do these kind of breastwork 30 things, then you get three things that you’re grateful for while you hold your heart. You let you know, kind of just like divine light, just kind of fill up your body from head to toe.

 

And then you think about three things that you want to really achieve for the day. So that’s the first thing I do. The second thing I do is a guided meditation. It will depend on what I’m doing. Sometimes I’m doing abundance meditation, sometimes I’m doing gratitude meditations. And then I do a gratitude, practice journaling. So during the week, you know, that’s anywhere from like, 20 to 60 minutes. And then sometimes on the weekend, I will literally just like do longer things where, you know, sometimes it’s guided, sometimes it happens to be like sleep and a nap, right?

 

Just kind of go and sleep but definitely try to do it. I do it every day just like you would brushing your teeth. And then on the weekend, you know, try to spend a little more time doing it

 

03:12

just sounds like a very good way for you to reset yourself. Yeah,

 

03:15

it’s, you know, I think this stillness, a lot of answers come up because I you know, I’ve kind of learned that all the answers are inside of us. You just need to you need to still your mind enough to, you know, to be able to get them.

 

03:27

Yes, kind of like how the best thoughts you always have are in the shower when you’re just thinking about things. And so it just comes to you naturally. Right? I guess that’s what you have, when you’re actually meditating as well. But yours is a lot more guided they weren’t?

 

03:40

 

Yeah, I mean, look, it’s it’s a ever evolving practice. And, you know, the one thing I’ve learned is don’t try to judge yourself by if you’re doing it right or wrong. Just the fact that you’re doing it, you know, is a great thing.

 

03:50

Oh, cool. Thanks for sharing that and Christian. So Christian, you are deeply connected with the healthcare sector, and you’ve invested in over 30 startups today, before we delve any deeper, can you share with us what sparked your interest in the healthcare sector? And why you’ve decided to dedicate so much of your energies towards it? Sure,

 

04:08

in my story is unique to me, but I think shared by you know, a lot of people that are listening, and particularly those that may have dealt with the US healthcare system. You know, we spend $4 trillion here in the US, they say about a trillion dollars is waste and, you know, have some of pretty poor outcomes.

 

And so I think, just from a systematic standpoint, you know, there’s some things that could be improved upon. My story is not a clinician per se. You know, I did an undergrad in economics and an MBA, so very much a business person but got a real passion for healthcare because of three really distinct things.

 

The first was, I lived in the country of Colombia, on a Fulbright scholarship when I was 22 years old and had to parasites went to the emergency room had a temperature of about 104 Fahrenheit, which I don’t know what that is in Celsius. But you know, kind of really, really bad.

 

Probably the closest thing that I felt to dying before in my life. And when I left, I got a bill for $53. And frankly, I didn’t think much of it’s very reasonable. Yeah, very reasonable, right? It probably would have been 53,000 in the US. But four years later, I dislocated my pinky actually the same Pinky.

 

05:31

Yeah, I can see right now, it’s kind of

 

05:33

funny. And long story short, I got a bill for $17,300. So that was my first well, just to fix the pinky. Yeah, just to fix the pinkie,

 

05:43

from recovering from a near death experience in Colombia for $53. And a dislocated Pinky for how much again, $17,300 for 17,000. That’s a huge difference. Yeah. And different.

 

05:56

So that was, you know, the absurdity of, you know, the US healthcare system. The second thing that happened, not as funny was my dad went for a very routine cataract surgery. And typically, one in 10,000 people have an infection from the surgery, and he was that person. And he said, when he was leaving, he said, I can’t see light, which the protocol is you’re supposed to be rushed to emergency surgery to wash the eye out because it’s infected.

 

And they wrote down, that he could see light, and they sent him home. And so, you know, he wakes up in the middle of the night, and the bacteria in the eye is basically eating his eye. And you know, very much he’s blind in that eye.

 

And, you know, it’s really kind of changed his life in a way that, you know, I don’t totally understand I have my two eyes, but you know, something that is very impactful for him. And then the third event, he will Yeah, it was nuts.

 

The third event, if you will, was my grandmother, when she was, you know, mid 60s had been asking for diagnostic tests, and it took the better part of two years to get those for her for her sides. And by the time that she got them, she was stage four. Yeah, stage four ovarian cancer and passed away.

 

07:17

I’m sorry to hear that. It’s must have been a very hard time for your family.

 

07:22

Yeah. And I think you know, there, I remember, you know, there are a lot of people are saying, you know, you should sue and malpractice and this, and I don’t believe that anyone’s a bad I think everyone goes into healthcare with a really good intention.

 

 I think there’s a lot of issues with it. But I’m not of the viewpoint that, you know, any one did anything wrong, there’s just bad incentives. And, you know, there’s a lack of efficiency. So I kind of took those three inventors healthcare system very much.

 

And so I took those three veterans and really started to hone a thesis and, you know, my life’s work to help transform health and live my see.

 

07:59

So these events were what spurred you forward into your passion in healthcare, you actually have a very rich background as a venture capitalist as well.

 

So you have been involved with many funds over the years, and a lot of investments that you’ve made have been in the healthcare sector, but could you could you spend some time to connect the dots for us, and give us a rundown of maybe the different funds that you’ve been working with over the years?

 

08:21

Yeah, it’d be happy to. So you know, maybe even backing up a little bit further. You know, I spent the age of 22 to 26. As an entrepreneur, we built a not for profit certification, business in the energy mining, and renewable space and think at the age of 23, or 24,

 

I made my first angel investment. And my first angel investment was in a college roommate of mine, it went to zero very quickly.

 

So I kind of learned the hard way. I think, second investment was again in a friend of mine who, you know, happened to go to college, as well, and it went to zero. And so you kind of learn by doing and by failure. I wish I could say that, you know, they were successful, but and then I started getting some other companies that started to do well, and you know, they exited.

 

And so I started to learn a little bit about the investing game. And then when I was at business school, there’s a fund called nav Ron, which is Howard Schultz and Dan Levitt, tons fun focused on early stage consumer, you know, they’ve done some brilliant consumer companies, and I started to really understand the dynamics and you know, what makes a really good early stage investment and, you know, kind of cut my teeth there and then was involved there still am in a company called next gen venture partners that has a really interesting model where they, they have dedicated funds to vehicles, but then they have Venture Partners, who are,

 

you know, either corporate people or entrepreneurs or investors that can invest alongside the fund and I was the first member Ever of next gen in Boston, and so kind of saw that fund evolve, and then came to Miami six years ago and raised my own vehicle that I’ve made 28 investments, and we’ve sold seven of them all in the healthcare space. And so I’ve kind of seen, you know, early stage consumer, you know, done the angel investment thing, you know, done seven investments there, and then 28 through this first fund.

 

10:27

Well, very impressive. Now, Christian, what is your philosophy? Then when it comes to investing in startups today? What is your approach to it, selecting them?

 

10:35

Yeah, it’s a great question. And I think it’s evolved, you know, continues to, I would say, you know, when I first started, you know, very passionate about healthcare and learn from some of the best in the world from my business school experience, but was very honest about the fact that, you know, not a clinician, not a hospital administrator.

 

And so the best thing that I could do is learn from the buyers of healthcare, the large health systems, the large insurance companies, the large employers. And so I developed a thesis, which was, there was a large portion of the cost curve in the US, called the Medicaid population called the dual eligibles. Minorities in the US that weren’t part of the innovation conversation, at least in 2013.

 

Thankfully, that’s changed a lot. But I would go to these large customers, and I would say, Tell me your pain points. And that would help me go source companies that were relevant to their pain points. And what I would ask them, as they say, Look, I don’t want anything else,

 

then when I bring you a solution, know that I’ve vetted the entrepreneur know that I’ve vetted the market know that this is my estimation of the best in breed solution. But if it meets your criteria, would you buy the product? And if the answer was yes, that, for me was such a big validation, because it proved that there was a customer customers, and one made the entrepreneur really happy, because I’m bringing them revenue and customers. And that helps to de risk the investment.

 

12:05

Apart from just providing the capital investment, it sounds like you’re also playing an active role in the growth of the startup, because the moment that you are coming in and getting involved, usually help them learn a huge customer for the startup based on the pain point that he has, it’s a

 

12:17

win win for both parties. And you know, I got very fortunate that one of the first businesses, the first one that we exited from the fund, we were able to make a meaningful contract for them, you know, probably within three months of us making the investment.

 

And so one thing I would do a lot, which was a great diligence tool was I would, even before we invested, I would connect these companies with five or 10 different customers, and I would get feedback from the customers.

 

But then on top of that, the entrepreneur saw that, you know, there was a real Rolodex there, there was a real Rolodex of healthcare customers, because one thing and venture capital, particularly at the early stage, if a deal is really good, it can be really competitive. And, you know, yeah, I don’t have a large capital base, let’s say, you know, like, a Sequoia does.

 

And so for me to prove my worth, if you will, to the entrepreneur, I had to really kind of hustle. And now I have a track record that it stands for itself. So it’s a little easier. But when I was first going, you know, sure, you can talk and say I’m gonna bring you customers. But until you do it, the smart entrepreneurs are like, everybody says that.

 

13:21

Yeah, exactly. So your approach of actually being actively involved in startup, even during the due diligence phase really helps set you apart as a venture capitalist. So guys, if you are thinking of raising funds, when you’re looking for an investor to come into your company, look for someone like Christian who is able to actually actively play an active role to help you grow your company and bring you new customers,

 

 if you’ve been a longtime listener of my show, you know, I always talk about in stress on the importance of selecting strategic partnerships with investors that you bring on board, whatever Krishna has been able to do for his healthcare startups is a great example of whatever I’ve always been trying to highlight.

 

Now, Christian, there’s so much capital in the market today, and has come to the point where the good and the best startups are the ones selecting the VCs and not the other way around anymore. Right?

 

14:02

Yeah. And I think it’s a that was, you know, very helpful and is very helpful. And then I think one thing that’s really evolved in kind of, you know, my thinking, both as an entrepreneur as an investor is them mindset of an entrepreneur, I think is what businesses kind of win or die by. And so one thing I really look at is,

 

you know, is this person, somebody that, you know, has a positive outlook, on their business in their life, and, you know, is their mindset up to the challenge of entrepreneurship, because entrepreneurship can be extremely, extremely difficult. And to the extent that you think that person has the mental fortitude to make it and kind of, you know, happen, I think is a really, really important criteria as well.

 

14:45

No Christian, what would you say are some of the biggest challenges that you faced with being a venture capitalist?

 

14:51

Ah, so I think a few things I mean, one I, you know, kind of straddle both, you know, we’re an entrepreneurial hat and then a word investor hat.

 

And so I think it’s just like, even the kind of word defining yourself as a venture capitalist. I think, you know, I struggle with at some point, but from a challenge standpoint, you know, particularly early on in my career is it was really good entrepreneurs, especially the season ones that have had a second or third or fourth exit, would kind of look at you and be like, okay,

 

Katie, you’re 28 sure you’ve had some entrepreneurial experience and like you’ve raised the fund, but like, what have you actually done in life? And like, Why?

 

Why should I partner with you. And so I think that was a big challenge in terms of like, I had to earn my stripes, in terms of like, have exits from the fund or bring real revenue to these. And so the first year, probably two was like me, literally hustling as much as I could, to show that I was really good at partnering with early stage entrepreneurs,

 

whether they were first time entrepreneurs, or whether they done it five times. And so, you know, it was a challenge, I think that’s a little easier. Now, it’s I do have that track record. That was definitely difficult when looking to work with more seasoned kind of serial entrepreneurs,

 

16:08

oh, this is very interesting. So of course, everyone has to hustle, whether you’re an entrepreneur or a venture capitalist as well. Now, you aren’t really very successful today. And what I would love for you to share is, earlier on in the conversation, you mentioned that you made a few bad angel investments, and you’ve learned from them clearly.

 

Because now you’ve achieved hyper successful exits as well. But could you share with us? What were some of the key takeaways from the earlier angel investments that went to zero that you’ve learned from and has shaped the way that you made your investments today? So a variety

 

16:37

and these may seem super obvious? One was somebody who’s not working full time, don’t do it. I mean, the first investment I made, you know, is in two extremely smart people want a PhD from Harvard?

 

You know, really good idea, good science, what have you, but neither person was doing it full time, they had day jobs, you know, this was kind of in an op for them. Yeah, a little hobby. And that’s okay. For the first maybe three, six months till you get proof of concept. But two years in, if you’re still doing that, they did it for two reasons.

 

One, you don’t believe in enter to just not being successful. And so, you know, that was kind of one lesson for me. The second lesson for me was, don’t invest in stuff you don’t understand. And so, you know, I think, you know, we, I’ll speak for myself, but you

 

know, you think you can kind of like, get smart about something, and it makes a conceptual sense, and entrepreneurs really good. But if like, you don’t have an edge, if you don’t have asymmetric information about why this is gonna, you know, be successful, then you probably shouldn’t be investing in it. Like, I feel like I have a real edge in healthcare,

 

because, you know, what, I’ve been doing it for a while, but two, I can call up a person that could buy the product and say, like, Hey, are you gonna buy this or not? And so I, I have an edge there, where I didn’t,

 

17:53

it gives you an immediate understanding as to whether the company that you’re looking at is a valuable one in the first place. Correct?

 

17:59

Yeah. And so in the, you know, the angel investments that failed, I didn’t have it hedge is a very close friend of mine, who’s a was a former professional basketball player. And now as a general manager for one of the NBA teams.

 

He said to me, something that’s always stuck with me, he said, Christian, if I get a health care deal on my desk, I have to ask myself, how many people had to say no to this deal? Before it came to me?

 

18:25

Especially because he’s not at the forefront of healthcare investment? Correct. So it’d be very different if someone came to you, because you are a specialist in healthcare, right? Yeah.

 

18:33

So you know, when I get a renewable energy deal, and I kind of thinking to myself Sure, makes a lot of sense. And like big market, and you know, I’ll check the boxes, but like, why am I seeing this? Like, wrong? So I, I mean, and that’s not 100% the case. I mean, I think there are opportunities where you get brought in by someone that knows what they’re doing. But that was a big learning for me, where it’s like, if I don’t have an edge, maybe something else is going on here. And I shouldn’t invest

 

18:58

Christianity sounds like you’ve adopted Warren Buffett’s philosophy and investing on the things that you understand with, I think all your experiences in investing in our healthcare sector, has really given you a great insight into the healthcare sector itself.

 

Now, with all your experience with startups with entrepreneurship, we’re most very intrigued because you are currently operating a healthcare startup as well called the Truvia.

 

And I know that but Truvia counts celebrities such as Tony Robbins and Red Sox legend, David Ortiz, his clients, but could you share this in your own words, what is the value proposition of the Truvia?

 

19:32

So the Truvia, for us represents the future of healing and what I mean by that is we found a breakthrough way to deal with pain or lack of mobility by repairing tissue from the inside out. And so, you know, we’ll use the example of David Ortiz, and she said, you know, he was a prolific baseball player, you know, won multiple World Champion chips with the Boston Red Sox. and had to stop playing baseball. Because every time he walked,

 

he was in so much pain. And there’s a great article that came out from his physical therapist that said, he was basically playing on stumps. And he went to the best people in the world to get this dealt with. And no one could figure out what was wrong with them. And so the Truvia has found a new way to look at the body, which is this interstitial layer.

 

And in David’s case, it was as simple as his skin fused to the layer. And so there was no more layer and these nerves were entrapped in that little layer. And so what my partner Dr. Goffin was an anesthesiologist who invented this technique did was free up the nerves and then restore the layer.

 

And the result is, you know, he was able to run with his son take ground balls, he’s even dancing. He said on camera before that, you know, if he had met us, he’d still be playing baseball. So the value proposition is, if you use your body to make money, this is a very easy way to continue doing, you know the sport or the musician or you know, the performance.

 

If you’re an executive that you know is at your desk all day and hunched over and you have tight hips are tight neck, you know, this is living without pain. And if you know, just basic stuff, like quality of life, bending down and picking up your kids or walking without, you know, kind of pain, we can deal with that in a very minimally invasive, efficient way.

 

21:28

I think the issue of chronic pain around the neck region is one of the issues that Tony Robbins suffered from and you helped him with as well, right?

 

21:33

Yeah, he’s a amazing human on so many fronts, and really, you know, uses his body to perform I think this stat is when he does. Some of his events, he does the equivalent of five or six marathons in terms of how many steps he’s taking.

 

So, you know, he very much is like a pro athlete, in terms of what he does with his body. And so, you know, we’ve spent a lot of time with him working through a variety of different things, just to realign because you can think about the body is like a car. And so just like you take your car to the shop every quarter, let’s say.

 

Yeah, exactly. You know, that’s what we do with tissue. And so, you know, sometimes you have to fix the tire, if you will, which is, you know, unfortunately, when we see most of the people when it’s, you know, something’s broken. But then there’s a process of kind of continual and constant realignment to make sure you don’t have a broken we’ll

 

22:25

no Christian before we talk a little bit more about how the Truvia helps its clients. Let’s take a step back. And let’s discuss why you decided to start bitmovio with your partner in the first place. So I

 

22:35

met RB Dr. Gotham six years ago through the CEO of the Miami Children’s Hospital, and it invested in Arby’s last business clairvoyance that just sold to a company called H one, which is a data analytics sales enablement tool for med device companies in a variety of others.

 

And so we, you know, got to know each other very well through that process, found out that we share the same birthday, which you know, I think was a really interesting coincidence.

 

Yeah, exactly. There are no mistakes. And he came to me about four and a half years ago at this point, instead, I found this way to transform tissue from the inside out. And I, you know, had no idea what that meant. But I had sprained both my wrists, jumping off a trampoline, and I did what you know, I think most people would do, which is, you know, they go to the best person they can find, and most of the time, the standard of care is to immobilize you to put you in braces, what I’ve learned through this process is,

 

 that’s probably not the most optimal thing to do, because it lays down more scar tissue that, you know, creates more problems. And so what Avi did for me was, you know, he said, Hey, I think I can deal with that, because I was going on two months of like doing push ups with my knuckles and not being able to move my wrists

 

23:52

and bring your wrist and you’re still doing push ups. You’re crazy,

 

23:56

a little crazy.

 

On on the knuckles, though. And anyway, so he treats me and you know, it took probably three, four or five days, I’m all bruised up. I was like, What am I doing myself, but by day five, let’s say I’m like, you know, I’ve mobility, there’s no pain. And so, okay, you feel something, you know, you know, something works. It’s right, it worked for you.

 

And so it gave me the real conviction of like, I need to do anything in everything I can to get this to more people. And so, you know, we partnered up in very much on the clinical side myself on you know, everything else. When we started the business via trivia,

 

24:33

notice an amazing bonus story. So for my next question, Christian, can you share with us what is their belief system that Vitruvius offering and how does it help his clients?

 

24:42

Sure, so it’s really a two step process.

 

The first is looking at this layer below the skin above the muscle. And just for very simplistic terms, let’s just call it your soft tissue. And so we use ultrasound in a tissue analysis that we’ve built called scar map that looks at the health and the playability of your soft tissue. So what I mean by that is, you know, is your tissue damage? Is it scarred?

 

Are there nerves that are entrapped? And, you know, it could be you had a surgery, and then you had scar tissue after it could be you have had an old injury and the tissues, you know, dense and calcified, it could be bad posture, as we were talking about, you know, just hunched over day and, and the tissue layers are sub optimal.

 

And so if we find something that reconciles with what you feel, and what we see, so in my case, you know, scar tissue and, and trapped nerves where my wrist hurts, then we know that you’re a candidate for relief. And so what relief is, is it a very simple but not simplistic process of going beneath the skin, and freeing up the nerves, first and foremost,

 

and then restoring or repairing the tissue back to what it should look like I like to use the analogy of scar tissue is like a picket fence, it doesn’t really move. But healthy tissue should be like a layer cake, it should be very, very organized in nature. And so the procedure is doing exactly that, which is breaking up these dense and calcified tissues, and repairing and restoring them back to a pre injury or normal state.

 

26:24

So with the ultrasound test, you can actually see the damage for scar tissues from your clients.

 

26:28

And even beyond that we can quantify. Just like there’s a cholesterol score, we can quantify improvements. So I’m just making these numbers up. But for sake of conversation, let’s say my wrist was 10% pliable, which is not very pliable, you know, it’s very dense, it’s not moving, yes. Once we do the relief procedure, we can then ultrasound you again and see, you know, maybe I’m 25% now and, and maybe normal for you is 30%.

 

So we still have a little work to do. But you know, the really cool thing about the tool that we build the screening tool scar map, is that it’s a mechanism to not only show where the issue is, but then quantify the improvement.

 

27:10

Now this sounds like a very new form of healing in the western market, at least, what challenges have you faced when you were starting this business and you’re trying to maybe acquire new customers? Did they really take well, to this whole idea of the healing of the interstitial tissues?

 

27:25

So I think with anything, you know, there’s adoption curve, and you have, you know, your early adopters, people that are willing to try anything the biohackers of the world, and then you have, you know, your late adopters, which are the people that, you know, want to see the randomized control trial, the double blind study.

 

And so I think we’re somewhere in between the two. And so definitely very, very challenging to, you know, get people to believe that this is something that could help them. And luckily, you know, because it works so well. Somebody like myself, that hasn’t done refers you that maybe has the same problem. And then you have a good,

 

28:05

strong advocates for the whole system and the company and everything that you’ve offered.

 

28:09

Exactly. So you know, really, today, the business is word of mouth and referral. And we’re in the process of educating the market.

 

But I completely understand why, you know, someone who’s never heard of this before, might be extremely skeptical about it. Because, you know, if, if you’re saying, this can solve an issue that you’ve had for 10 years, and you’ve tried everything else, you know, you might not believe it.

 

And so it’s definitely a process of education. It’s definitely a process of, you know, putting it in very kind of easy, digestible terms for people to understand. And I think we’re at a place now that there’s enough else in the market, there’s a company called hyper razor is a company called Thera body,

 

that, you know, they use these guns to kind of manipulate the soft tissue from the outside, that it’s not a crazy thing for people to realize that, hey, if I get a myofascial massage, or if I use the third gun, or if I do stuff, you know, from the outside, maybe I can do even more to repair my tissue from the inside.

 

29:10

So guys, whenever you’re starting a new business, one of the things that you should think about is whether the industry is ready for your business idea.

 

So for Chris’s case, his business is very new and novel idea. So there’s definitely an adoption curve, as he has explained. And the main difficulties for any business who’s facing a similar challenges him is the idea of educating the market. Now, this is usually an uphill battle. And it’s something that’s really hard to break through.

 

But of course, does not mean that it’s impossible to make that breakthrough. You just have to be very strategic with how you actually approach it.

 

This Vitruvius in the business of healing his clients, it seems like the best way for the true way to do this is to rely on the word of mouth from his previous clients who actually benefited from the system and have become very strong advocates for them. But of course, this is not a one size fit all thing. If you have a new idea.

 

Explore every avenue that you can to get the word out, just be prepared that educating the market will take time, and you have to be prepared for death. Now back to you, Christian. So I understand from our previous conversations that there’s some element of traditional Chinese medicine, the loss of your knowledge, this is a part of the Vitruvius system.

 

So I find it really interesting. Now I, myself am Chinese. So this is quite second nature to me, my parents, my grandparents and myself have all at one point in time visited a Chinese medicine physician, of course, we have benefited from the help. And they have always shared with me that if it didn’t work, it wouldn’t be a form of medicine that have been around for 1000s of years. So there must be some truth and knowledge to it. But there perhaps still many gaps between Western medicine and traditional Chinese medicine.

 

And that could be something that will narrow in the future as well. But Christian, can you share with us? Why is the idea of healing your interstitial tissue? Such a new idea in western medicine today?

 

30:48

So it’s a really interesting question. And I’ll be when I was first starting the journey, he traces his lines to the Vedas, so era Vedic medicine, but if you look at this interstitial layer, which NYU Langone in 2018, said it was called the interstitium,

 

which was before we thought it was as dense wall of collagen, but what we realize is it’s fluid highway, where ions and proteins are transported and where the lymph system resides. And so, you know, very large organ that connects us from head to toe.

 

It’s very, very important. And so what, Avi when he mapped the meridians, and map the chakras against these, I’m just gonna call them fascial planes, if you will, in the interstitial layer, there was a big mapping. And so we always say, you know, the cheese lineman, right?

 

Yeah, there was an alignment to the Qi and in Chinese medicine, you know, the QI always flows. And it’s our belief, you know, I think it’s probably reconciles is that the CI is what flows across this interstitial layer.

 

31:57

Yeah, so I guess it’s, you know, the same concept applying to different areas of medicine. And I think we’d be very in a place where it’s something new that Western medicine is starting to understand and learn and adopt. So you said that this was something that NYU discovered in 2018. So that’s really recent.

 

And for, you know, this will be a new area of medicine, that people will be spending more time and investments into to actually understand more, and if it can really help individuals who have pain management, power to it, man, I hope that this is something that, you know, we can see huge improvements born into the future, and we can actually help others with the pain issues as well, right?

 

32:37

Yeah, well, we very much feel the same. And you know, excited to get this out to the world, I’ll just share one other thing. Because I think it’s important to the discussion, and what you said about Western medicine is, so typically, Western medicine is trained on categoric bodies, which means, you know, people have passed away.

 

And so you’re training on these bodies. And one thing that we know is this connective tissue, it goes away really quickly when someone passes. And so part of the reason it’s our belief why this is, you know, so new, and really, under researched is the way medicines taught in this country. And so nobody’s fault, obviously, it’s just, if you’re dissecting bodies, and they don’t have this layer, of course, you’re not going to think about

 

33:21

it, you don’t even know that is really in existence in the first place. How do you learn something that you’re not aware about? Right? Exactly. You know, what, I can’t wait to see the future developments in modern medicine on the interstitial tissue and pain management, because I think it really helps so many people. So Christina, we’re talking about a future, what direction do you want to take the Truvia as you grow? So

 

33:39

we have a motto that, you know, pain is inevitable suffering is optional. And so I think, you know, we want to be able to get this to as many people as possible and you know, that takes a variety of forms, it’s, you know, making sure that we do an

 

amazing job with the clients that we serve, that we create the platform to enable other people to do the same. And give really the customer, the client, the choice. You know, there’s a lot of options out there, whether they are, you know, surgeries, whether it’s pills, or whether it’s these type of procedures, you know, I think there’s a place for all of it. Our view, is simply the body is so much smarter than we are and has this amazing ability to heal itself.

 

And so, we like to take the most natural approach, and really kind of just give the body a little bit of nudge, and try to heal itself before you maybe go to some of those other options that 100% are necessary in many cases.

 

But if we can avoid, call it unnecessary surgeries, if we can avoid people getting addicted to opioids, or if we can avoid, you know, somebody going in and getting cortisone steroid shots every year that we know has long term Dangerous degenerative effects, you know, that’s something that we would like to help out with,

 

35:04

I guess the idea is that what you’re offering is a non invasive form of treatment. And it could be a good alternative, maybe to invasive surgery itself.

 

35:12

Yeah. And look, there’s a lot of timing surgery is absolutely necessary. And so this is also something that, you know, we do a lot of cases post surgical, you know, post surgery, scarred scarring does happen. And, you know, sometimes there’s complications, which is unfortunate. And so, to the extent that we can repair the tissue after surgery, we do a lot of that.

 

And so we’re not looking to displace anybody, or we’re not looking to say that, you know, those options aren’t right. It’s a very kind of client case specific. And, look, we can’t help everyone, you know, there’s, we, if there’s tissue that is damaged, scarred, fused, and there’s nerves that are entrapped,

 

that’s something that we can very much help with, in some cases, you know, there’s some other stuff that’s going on that, you know, other options have to be explored.

 

36:00

I understand. No, Christian, if the listeners only remember one thing from today’s conversation, oh, we’d like it to be.

 

36:06

I think passion breeds purpose. So, you know, for me, this doesn’t feel like work. You know, this is something my mom’s always like, you work too much. I’m like, well, not really working. You know, I kind of enjoyed this.

 

So I think, you know, to the extent that you’re thinking about entrepreneurship, you’re thinking about investing. You know, this is such an amazing experience that we have to be on this earth and live this human experience. And so I would just encourage everyone to do it you’re super passionate about, I mean, you know, you’re doing this at seven in the morning, right now. And I know you’re gonna cut yourself from eight to 10pm.

 

And so you’re obviously living that. And I know, it’s trite. And a lot of people say it, but I would just, you know, encourage everyone to do it

 

36:47

know, Kristin, how can the listeners get in contact with you if you want to learn more about Vitruvius? Sure.

 

36:51

So for Truvia, it’s, the website is the trivia.co V i, t RUVIA. And then I’m most reachable on LinkedIn. It’s just my name, Christian, ch, ar, I STI n and then the last name, seal, just like the animal with an E on the end, SCA le and, you know, be delighted to connect with the listeners.

 

37:16

Yeah. And I’ll place all your contact details on the episode page. So if anyone who’s listening in right now is interested in the Truvia, and what do you have to offer, or they want to get in contact with Christian head on down to the episode page tatio.com.

 

That’s tdo.com to check it out. Now, Christian, thank you so much for joining us today. I certainly learned a lot from both the VC side of things and what Vitruvius really offering thank you for sharing your stories and your experience. I’m happy to make this connection.

 

37:45

Thank you for having me. Guys,

 

37:47

thank you so much for joining Christina Nye on today’s show. So one thing I took away from this conversation is what impact are you really creating in the world of your business? So for Christian is quite clear that his mission and goal for his businesses is to help people and improve the health care system.

 

When you have such a mission and goal, it becomes so meaningful to put down your head and work hard. And you can actually make money from the process. You know, great if you guys have such a mission, your business as well.

 

Good for you. And if you’re looking for one, I’m sure you’ll find it. Now as before, if you’ve received any value from the show, I would love for you to subscribe to the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts and to share the show with somebody who find it useful as well.

 

All of these tools and resources and my email list available on Ted to.com. That’s tdto.com. That’s all for me today. I’ll see you guys next time.

[This transcript has been automatically generated by a digital software and will therefore  contain errors and typos. Please kindly take note of this and only rely on the digital transcript for reference.]

00:02

Hello welcome to detect to business show the best place for extra more advice for entrepreneurs. This is Ted your friend and host speaking.

 

On today’s show we have Christian CEO healthcare venture capitalist was invested in in growing over 30 healthcare startups to date, and so grow his own healthcare startup the Vitruvia, which helps his clients managed to daily frustration of chronic pain, stiffness, and lack of mobility.

 

Today betrouwbare counts Tony Robbins, Red Sox legend David Ortiz and actor Danny Glover, who is best known for starring in The Lethal Weapon movies alongside note Gibson as his clients. So join us as Christian shares about his investment philosophies behind selecting startups.

 

The challenges that he faced growing his venture capital fund and the Truvia. And their workday is doing today growing healthcare startups, All these and more after this quick commercial break.

 

Hey, guys, is Ted, thank you so much for joining me on my show. And for all the support. If you ever found any value from the show, I would love if you could subscribe to the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts and share the show with somebody who find it useful as well.

 

All episodes Tuesday resources are available on tattoo comm so make sure you log on to tattoo.com That’s tdto.com. And make sure you sign up for the newsletter if you want to hear updates from me directly. And now let’s dive right in. Hey, Christian, thank you so much for joining us today is so nice to have you here. Pleasure to be here. Thank

 

01:22

you for having me. Now, Christian,

 

01:23

let’s start with a very simple icebreaker so we can all get to know you better. Please share verse, Who is Christian? See you when he isn’t working.

 

01:31

I’m a meditator, aspiring tennis player, son, oh, friend. And in mire of nature,

 

01:44

whoa. So you’ve been doing meditation for how long right now, Christian?

 

01:48

Ah, I started in 2013. And it was the only thing that I could find that would take out the avocado pit of stress that I used to wake up with every single morning.

 

02:02

So how many hours a day do you spend meditating Christian.

 

02:05

So in the morning, I have two to three meditations I like to do one is this idea of priming, which is you know, a borrowed from Tony Robbins, which is you do these kind of breastwork 30 things, then you get three things that you’re grateful for while you hold your heart. You let you know, kind of just like divine light, just kind of fill up your body from head to toe.

 

And then you think about three things that you want to really achieve for the day. So that’s the first thing I do. The second thing I do is a guided meditation. It will depend on what I’m doing. Sometimes I’m doing abundance meditation, sometimes I’m doing gratitude meditations. And then I do a gratitude, practice journaling. So during the week, you know, that’s anywhere from like, 20 to 60 minutes. And then sometimes on the weekend, I will literally just like do longer things where, you know, sometimes it’s guided, sometimes it happens to be like sleep and a nap, right?

 

Just kind of go and sleep but definitely try to do it. I do it every day just like you would brushing your teeth. And then on the weekend, you know, try to spend a little more time doing it

 

03:12

just sounds like a very good way for you to reset yourself. Yeah,

 

03:15

it’s, you know, I think this stillness, a lot of answers come up because I you know, I’ve kind of learned that all the answers are inside of us. You just need to you need to still your mind enough to, you know, to be able to get them.

 

03:27

Yes, kind of like how the best thoughts you always have are in the shower when you’re just thinking about things. And so it just comes to you naturally. Right? I guess that’s what you have, when you’re actually meditating as well. But yours is a lot more guided they weren’t?

 

03:40

 

Yeah, I mean, look, it’s it’s a ever evolving practice. And, you know, the one thing I’ve learned is don’t try to judge yourself by if you’re doing it right or wrong. Just the fact that you’re doing it, you know, is a great thing.

 

03:50

Oh, cool. Thanks for sharing that and Christian. So Christian, you are deeply connected with the healthcare sector, and you’ve invested in over 30 startups today, before we delve any deeper, can you share with us what sparked your interest in the healthcare sector? And why you’ve decided to dedicate so much of your energies towards it? Sure,

 

04:08

in my story is unique to me, but I think shared by you know, a lot of people that are listening, and particularly those that may have dealt with the US healthcare system. You know, we spend $4 trillion here in the US, they say about a trillion dollars is waste and, you know, have some of pretty poor outcomes.

 

And so I think, just from a systematic standpoint, you know, there’s some things that could be improved upon. My story is not a clinician per se. You know, I did an undergrad in economics and an MBA, so very much a business person but got a real passion for healthcare because of three really distinct things.

 

The first was, I lived in the country of Colombia, on a Fulbright scholarship when I was 22 years old and had to parasites went to the emergency room had a temperature of about 104 Fahrenheit, which I don’t know what that is in Celsius. But you know, kind of really, really bad.

 

Probably the closest thing that I felt to dying before in my life. And when I left, I got a bill for $53. And frankly, I didn’t think much of it’s very reasonable. Yeah, very reasonable, right? It probably would have been 53,000 in the US. But four years later, I dislocated my pinky actually the same Pinky.

 

05:31

Yeah, I can see right now, it’s kind of

 

05:33

funny. And long story short, I got a bill for $17,300. So that was my first well, just to fix the pinky. Yeah, just to fix the pinkie,

 

05:43

from recovering from a near death experience in Colombia for $53. And a dislocated Pinky for how much again, $17,300 for 17,000. That’s a huge difference. Yeah. And different.

 

05:56

So that was, you know, the absurdity of, you know, the US healthcare system. The second thing that happened, not as funny was my dad went for a very routine cataract surgery. And typically, one in 10,000 people have an infection from the surgery, and he was that person. And he said, when he was leaving, he said, I can’t see light, which the protocol is you’re supposed to be rushed to emergency surgery to wash the eye out because it’s infected.

 

And they wrote down, that he could see light, and they sent him home. And so, you know, he wakes up in the middle of the night, and the bacteria in the eye is basically eating his eye. And you know, very much he’s blind in that eye.

 

And, you know, it’s really kind of changed his life in a way that, you know, I don’t totally understand I have my two eyes, but you know, something that is very impactful for him. And then the third event, he will Yeah, it was nuts.

 

The third event, if you will, was my grandmother, when she was, you know, mid 60s had been asking for diagnostic tests, and it took the better part of two years to get those for her for her sides. And by the time that she got them, she was stage four. Yeah, stage four ovarian cancer and passed away.

 

07:17

I’m sorry to hear that. It’s must have been a very hard time for your family.

 

07:22

Yeah. And I think you know, there, I remember, you know, there are a lot of people are saying, you know, you should sue and malpractice and this, and I don’t believe that anyone’s a bad I think everyone goes into healthcare with a really good intention.

 

 I think there’s a lot of issues with it. But I’m not of the viewpoint that, you know, any one did anything wrong, there’s just bad incentives. And, you know, there’s a lack of efficiency. So I kind of took those three inventors healthcare system very much.

 

And so I took those three veterans and really started to hone a thesis and, you know, my life’s work to help transform health and live my see.

 

07:59

So these events were what spurred you forward into your passion in healthcare, you actually have a very rich background as a venture capitalist as well.

 

So you have been involved with many funds over the years, and a lot of investments that you’ve made have been in the healthcare sector, but could you could you spend some time to connect the dots for us, and give us a rundown of maybe the different funds that you’ve been working with over the years?

 

08:21

Yeah, it’d be happy to. So you know, maybe even backing up a little bit further. You know, I spent the age of 22 to 26. As an entrepreneur, we built a not for profit certification, business in the energy mining, and renewable space and think at the age of 23, or 24,

 

I made my first angel investment. And my first angel investment was in a college roommate of mine, it went to zero very quickly.

 

So I kind of learned the hard way. I think, second investment was again in a friend of mine who, you know, happened to go to college, as well, and it went to zero. And so you kind of learn by doing and by failure. I wish I could say that, you know, they were successful, but and then I started getting some other companies that started to do well, and you know, they exited.

 

And so I started to learn a little bit about the investing game. And then when I was at business school, there’s a fund called nav Ron, which is Howard Schultz and Dan Levitt, tons fun focused on early stage consumer, you know, they’ve done some brilliant consumer companies, and I started to really understand the dynamics and you know, what makes a really good early stage investment and, you know, kind of cut my teeth there and then was involved there still am in a company called next gen venture partners that has a really interesting model where they, they have dedicated funds to vehicles, but then they have Venture Partners, who are,

 

you know, either corporate people or entrepreneurs or investors that can invest alongside the fund and I was the first member Ever of next gen in Boston, and so kind of saw that fund evolve, and then came to Miami six years ago and raised my own vehicle that I’ve made 28 investments, and we’ve sold seven of them all in the healthcare space. And so I’ve kind of seen, you know, early stage consumer, you know, done the angel investment thing, you know, done seven investments there, and then 28 through this first fund.

 

10:27

Well, very impressive. Now, Christian, what is your philosophy? Then when it comes to investing in startups today? What is your approach to it, selecting them?

 

10:35

Yeah, it’s a great question. And I think it’s evolved, you know, continues to, I would say, you know, when I first started, you know, very passionate about healthcare and learn from some of the best in the world from my business school experience, but was very honest about the fact that, you know, not a clinician, not a hospital administrator.

 

And so the best thing that I could do is learn from the buyers of healthcare, the large health systems, the large insurance companies, the large employers. And so I developed a thesis, which was, there was a large portion of the cost curve in the US, called the Medicaid population called the dual eligibles. Minorities in the US that weren’t part of the innovation conversation, at least in 2013.

 

Thankfully, that’s changed a lot. But I would go to these large customers, and I would say, Tell me your pain points. And that would help me go source companies that were relevant to their pain points. And what I would ask them, as they say, Look, I don’t want anything else,

 

then when I bring you a solution, know that I’ve vetted the entrepreneur know that I’ve vetted the market know that this is my estimation of the best in breed solution. But if it meets your criteria, would you buy the product? And if the answer was yes, that, for me was such a big validation, because it proved that there was a customer customers, and one made the entrepreneur really happy, because I’m bringing them revenue and customers. And that helps to de risk the investment.

 

12:05

Apart from just providing the capital investment, it sounds like you’re also playing an active role in the growth of the startup, because the moment that you are coming in and getting involved, usually help them learn a huge customer for the startup based on the pain point that he has, it’s a

 

12:17

win win for both parties. And you know, I got very fortunate that one of the first businesses, the first one that we exited from the fund, we were able to make a meaningful contract for them, you know, probably within three months of us making the investment.

 

And so one thing I would do a lot, which was a great diligence tool was I would, even before we invested, I would connect these companies with five or 10 different customers, and I would get feedback from the customers.

 

But then on top of that, the entrepreneur saw that, you know, there was a real Rolodex there, there was a real Rolodex of healthcare customers, because one thing and venture capital, particularly at the early stage, if a deal is really good, it can be really competitive. And, you know, yeah, I don’t have a large capital base, let’s say, you know, like, a Sequoia does.

 

And so for me to prove my worth, if you will, to the entrepreneur, I had to really kind of hustle. And now I have a track record that it stands for itself. So it’s a little easier. But when I was first going, you know, sure, you can talk and say I’m gonna bring you customers. But until you do it, the smart entrepreneurs are like, everybody says that.

 

13:21

Yeah, exactly. So your approach of actually being actively involved in startup, even during the due diligence phase really helps set you apart as a venture capitalist. So guys, if you are thinking of raising funds, when you’re looking for an investor to come into your company, look for someone like Christian who is able to actually actively play an active role to help you grow your company and bring you new customers,

 

 if you’ve been a longtime listener of my show, you know, I always talk about in stress on the importance of selecting strategic partnerships with investors that you bring on board, whatever Krishna has been able to do for his healthcare startups is a great example of whatever I’ve always been trying to highlight.

 

Now, Christian, there’s so much capital in the market today, and has come to the point where the good and the best startups are the ones selecting the VCs and not the other way around anymore. Right?

 

14:02

Yeah. And I think it’s a that was, you know, very helpful and is very helpful. And then I think one thing that’s really evolved in kind of, you know, my thinking, both as an entrepreneur as an investor is them mindset of an entrepreneur, I think is what businesses kind of win or die by. And so one thing I really look at is,

 

you know, is this person, somebody that, you know, has a positive outlook, on their business in their life, and, you know, is their mindset up to the challenge of entrepreneurship, because entrepreneurship can be extremely, extremely difficult. And to the extent that you think that person has the mental fortitude to make it and kind of, you know, happen, I think is a really, really important criteria as well.

 

14:45

No Christian, what would you say are some of the biggest challenges that you faced with being a venture capitalist?

 

14:51

Ah, so I think a few things I mean, one I, you know, kind of straddle both, you know, we’re an entrepreneurial hat and then a word investor hat.

 

And so I think it’s just like, even the kind of word defining yourself as a venture capitalist. I think, you know, I struggle with at some point, but from a challenge standpoint, you know, particularly early on in my career is it was really good entrepreneurs, especially the season ones that have had a second or third or fourth exit, would kind of look at you and be like, okay,

 

Katie, you’re 28 sure you’ve had some entrepreneurial experience and like you’ve raised the fund, but like, what have you actually done in life? And like, Why?

 

Why should I partner with you. And so I think that was a big challenge in terms of like, I had to earn my stripes, in terms of like, have exits from the fund or bring real revenue to these. And so the first year, probably two was like me, literally hustling as much as I could, to show that I was really good at partnering with early stage entrepreneurs,

 

whether they were first time entrepreneurs, or whether they done it five times. And so, you know, it was a challenge, I think that’s a little easier. Now, it’s I do have that track record. That was definitely difficult when looking to work with more seasoned kind of serial entrepreneurs,

 

16:08

oh, this is very interesting. So of course, everyone has to hustle, whether you’re an entrepreneur or a venture capitalist as well. Now, you aren’t really very successful today. And what I would love for you to share is, earlier on in the conversation, you mentioned that you made a few bad angel investments, and you’ve learned from them clearly.

 

Because now you’ve achieved hyper successful exits as well. But could you share with us? What were some of the key takeaways from the earlier angel investments that went to zero that you’ve learned from and has shaped the way that you made your investments today? So a variety

 

16:37

and these may seem super obvious? One was somebody who’s not working full time, don’t do it. I mean, the first investment I made, you know, is in two extremely smart people want a PhD from Harvard?

 

You know, really good idea, good science, what have you, but neither person was doing it full time, they had day jobs, you know, this was kind of in an op for them. Yeah, a little hobby. And that’s okay. For the first maybe three, six months till you get proof of concept. But two years in, if you’re still doing that, they did it for two reasons.

 

One, you don’t believe in enter to just not being successful. And so, you know, that was kind of one lesson for me. The second lesson for me was, don’t invest in stuff you don’t understand. And so, you know, I think, you know, we, I’ll speak for myself, but you

 

know, you think you can kind of like, get smart about something, and it makes a conceptual sense, and entrepreneurs really good. But if like, you don’t have an edge, if you don’t have asymmetric information about why this is gonna, you know, be successful, then you probably shouldn’t be investing in it. Like, I feel like I have a real edge in healthcare,

 

because, you know, what, I’ve been doing it for a while, but two, I can call up a person that could buy the product and say, like, Hey, are you gonna buy this or not? And so I, I have an edge there, where I didn’t,

 

17:53

it gives you an immediate understanding as to whether the company that you’re looking at is a valuable one in the first place. Correct?

 

17:59

Yeah. And so in the, you know, the angel investments that failed, I didn’t have it hedge is a very close friend of mine, who’s a was a former professional basketball player. And now as a general manager for one of the NBA teams.

 

He said to me, something that’s always stuck with me, he said, Christian, if I get a health care deal on my desk, I have to ask myself, how many people had to say no to this deal? Before it came to me?

 

18:25

Especially because he’s not at the forefront of healthcare investment? Correct. So it’d be very different if someone came to you, because you are a specialist in healthcare, right? Yeah.

 

18:33

So you know, when I get a renewable energy deal, and I kind of thinking to myself Sure, makes a lot of sense. And like big market, and you know, I’ll check the boxes, but like, why am I seeing this? Like, wrong? So I, I mean, and that’s not 100% the case. I mean, I think there are opportunities where you get brought in by someone that knows what they’re doing. But that was a big learning for me, where it’s like, if I don’t have an edge, maybe something else is going on here. And I shouldn’t invest

 

18:58

Christianity sounds like you’ve adopted Warren Buffett’s philosophy and investing on the things that you understand with, I think all your experiences in investing in our healthcare sector, has really given you a great insight into the healthcare sector itself.

 

Now, with all your experience with startups with entrepreneurship, we’re most very intrigued because you are currently operating a healthcare startup as well called the Truvia.

 

And I know that but Truvia counts celebrities such as Tony Robbins and Red Sox legend, David Ortiz, his clients, but could you share this in your own words, what is the value proposition of the Truvia?

 

19:32

So the Truvia, for us represents the future of healing and what I mean by that is we found a breakthrough way to deal with pain or lack of mobility by repairing tissue from the inside out. And so, you know, we’ll use the example of David Ortiz, and she said, you know, he was a prolific baseball player, you know, won multiple World Champion chips with the Boston Red Sox. and had to stop playing baseball. Because every time he walked,

 

he was in so much pain. And there’s a great article that came out from his physical therapist that said, he was basically playing on stumps. And he went to the best people in the world to get this dealt with. And no one could figure out what was wrong with them. And so the Truvia has found a new way to look at the body, which is this interstitial layer.

 

And in David’s case, it was as simple as his skin fused to the layer. And so there was no more layer and these nerves were entrapped in that little layer. And so what my partner Dr. Goffin was an anesthesiologist who invented this technique did was free up the nerves and then restore the layer.

 

And the result is, you know, he was able to run with his son take ground balls, he’s even dancing. He said on camera before that, you know, if he had met us, he’d still be playing baseball. So the value proposition is, if you use your body to make money, this is a very easy way to continue doing, you know the sport or the musician or you know, the performance.

 

If you’re an executive that you know is at your desk all day and hunched over and you have tight hips are tight neck, you know, this is living without pain. And if you know, just basic stuff, like quality of life, bending down and picking up your kids or walking without, you know, kind of pain, we can deal with that in a very minimally invasive, efficient way.

 

21:28

I think the issue of chronic pain around the neck region is one of the issues that Tony Robbins suffered from and you helped him with as well, right?

 

21:33

Yeah, he’s a amazing human on so many fronts, and really, you know, uses his body to perform I think this stat is when he does. Some of his events, he does the equivalent of five or six marathons in terms of how many steps he’s taking.

 

So, you know, he very much is like a pro athlete, in terms of what he does with his body. And so, you know, we’ve spent a lot of time with him working through a variety of different things, just to realign because you can think about the body is like a car. And so just like you take your car to the shop every quarter, let’s say.

 

Yeah, exactly. You know, that’s what we do with tissue. And so, you know, sometimes you have to fix the tire, if you will, which is, you know, unfortunately, when we see most of the people when it’s, you know, something’s broken. But then there’s a process of kind of continual and constant realignment to make sure you don’t have a broken we’ll

 

22:25

no Christian before we talk a little bit more about how the Truvia helps its clients. Let’s take a step back. And let’s discuss why you decided to start bitmovio with your partner in the first place. So I

 

22:35

met RB Dr. Gotham six years ago through the CEO of the Miami Children’s Hospital, and it invested in Arby’s last business clairvoyance that just sold to a company called H one, which is a data analytics sales enablement tool for med device companies in a variety of others.

 

And so we, you know, got to know each other very well through that process, found out that we share the same birthday, which you know, I think was a really interesting coincidence.

 

Yeah, exactly. There are no mistakes. And he came to me about four and a half years ago at this point, instead, I found this way to transform tissue from the inside out. And I, you know, had no idea what that meant. But I had sprained both my wrists, jumping off a trampoline, and I did what you know, I think most people would do, which is, you know, they go to the best person they can find, and most of the time, the standard of care is to immobilize you to put you in braces, what I’ve learned through this process is,

 

 that’s probably not the most optimal thing to do, because it lays down more scar tissue that, you know, creates more problems. And so what Avi did for me was, you know, he said, Hey, I think I can deal with that, because I was going on two months of like doing push ups with my knuckles and not being able to move my wrists

 

23:52

and bring your wrist and you’re still doing push ups. You’re crazy,

 

23:56

a little crazy.

 

On on the knuckles, though. And anyway, so he treats me and you know, it took probably three, four or five days, I’m all bruised up. I was like, What am I doing myself, but by day five, let’s say I’m like, you know, I’ve mobility, there’s no pain. And so, okay, you feel something, you know, you know, something works. It’s right, it worked for you.

 

And so it gave me the real conviction of like, I need to do anything in everything I can to get this to more people. And so, you know, we partnered up in very much on the clinical side myself on you know, everything else. When we started the business via trivia,

 

24:33

notice an amazing bonus story. So for my next question, Christian, can you share with us what is their belief system that Vitruvius offering and how does it help his clients?

 

24:42

Sure, so it’s really a two step process.

 

The first is looking at this layer below the skin above the muscle. And just for very simplistic terms, let’s just call it your soft tissue. And so we use ultrasound in a tissue analysis that we’ve built called scar map that looks at the health and the playability of your soft tissue. So what I mean by that is, you know, is your tissue damage? Is it scarred?

 

Are there nerves that are entrapped? And, you know, it could be you had a surgery, and then you had scar tissue after it could be you have had an old injury and the tissues, you know, dense and calcified, it could be bad posture, as we were talking about, you know, just hunched over day and, and the tissue layers are sub optimal.

 

And so if we find something that reconciles with what you feel, and what we see, so in my case, you know, scar tissue and, and trapped nerves where my wrist hurts, then we know that you’re a candidate for relief. And so what relief is, is it a very simple but not simplistic process of going beneath the skin, and freeing up the nerves, first and foremost,

 

and then restoring or repairing the tissue back to what it should look like I like to use the analogy of scar tissue is like a picket fence, it doesn’t really move. But healthy tissue should be like a layer cake, it should be very, very organized in nature. And so the procedure is doing exactly that, which is breaking up these dense and calcified tissues, and repairing and restoring them back to a pre injury or normal state.

 

26:24

So with the ultrasound test, you can actually see the damage for scar tissues from your clients.

 

26:28

And even beyond that we can quantify. Just like there’s a cholesterol score, we can quantify improvements. So I’m just making these numbers up. But for sake of conversation, let’s say my wrist was 10% pliable, which is not very pliable, you know, it’s very dense, it’s not moving, yes. Once we do the relief procedure, we can then ultrasound you again and see, you know, maybe I’m 25% now and, and maybe normal for you is 30%.

 

So we still have a little work to do. But you know, the really cool thing about the tool that we build the screening tool scar map, is that it’s a mechanism to not only show where the issue is, but then quantify the improvement.

 

27:10

Now this sounds like a very new form of healing in the western market, at least, what challenges have you faced when you were starting this business and you’re trying to maybe acquire new customers? Did they really take well, to this whole idea of the healing of the interstitial tissues?

 

27:25

So I think with anything, you know, there’s adoption curve, and you have, you know, your early adopters, people that are willing to try anything the biohackers of the world, and then you have, you know, your late adopters, which are the people that, you know, want to see the randomized control trial, the double blind study.

 

And so I think we’re somewhere in between the two. And so definitely very, very challenging to, you know, get people to believe that this is something that could help them. And luckily, you know, because it works so well. Somebody like myself, that hasn’t done refers you that maybe has the same problem. And then you have a good,

 

28:05

strong advocates for the whole system and the company and everything that you’ve offered.

 

28:09

Exactly. So you know, really, today, the business is word of mouth and referral. And we’re in the process of educating the market.

 

But I completely understand why, you know, someone who’s never heard of this before, might be extremely skeptical about it. Because, you know, if, if you’re saying, this can solve an issue that you’ve had for 10 years, and you’ve tried everything else, you know, you might not believe it.

 

And so it’s definitely a process of education. It’s definitely a process of, you know, putting it in very kind of easy, digestible terms for people to understand. And I think we’re at a place now that there’s enough else in the market, there’s a company called hyper razor is a company called Thera body,

 

that, you know, they use these guns to kind of manipulate the soft tissue from the outside, that it’s not a crazy thing for people to realize that, hey, if I get a myofascial massage, or if I use the third gun, or if I do stuff, you know, from the outside, maybe I can do even more to repair my tissue from the inside.

 

29:10

So guys, whenever you’re starting a new business, one of the things that you should think about is whether the industry is ready for your business idea.

 

So for Chris’s case, his business is very new and novel idea. So there’s definitely an adoption curve, as he has explained. And the main difficulties for any business who’s facing a similar challenges him is the idea of educating the market. Now, this is usually an uphill battle. And it’s something that’s really hard to break through.

 

But of course, does not mean that it’s impossible to make that breakthrough. You just have to be very strategic with how you actually approach it.

 

This Vitruvius in the business of healing his clients, it seems like the best way for the true way to do this is to rely on the word of mouth from his previous clients who actually benefited from the system and have become very strong advocates for them. But of course, this is not a one size fit all thing. If you have a new idea.

 

Explore every avenue that you can to get the word out, just be prepared that educating the market will take time, and you have to be prepared for death. Now back to you, Christian. So I understand from our previous conversations that there’s some element of traditional Chinese medicine, the loss of your knowledge, this is a part of the Vitruvius system.

 

So I find it really interesting. Now I, myself am Chinese. So this is quite second nature to me, my parents, my grandparents and myself have all at one point in time visited a Chinese medicine physician, of course, we have benefited from the help. And they have always shared with me that if it didn’t work, it wouldn’t be a form of medicine that have been around for 1000s of years. So there must be some truth and knowledge to it. But there perhaps still many gaps between Western medicine and traditional Chinese medicine.

 

And that could be something that will narrow in the future as well. But Christian, can you share with us? Why is the idea of healing your interstitial tissue? Such a new idea in western medicine today?

 

30:48

So it’s a really interesting question. And I’ll be when I was first starting the journey, he traces his lines to the Vedas, so era Vedic medicine, but if you look at this interstitial layer, which NYU Langone in 2018, said it was called the interstitium,

 

which was before we thought it was as dense wall of collagen, but what we realize is it’s fluid highway, where ions and proteins are transported and where the lymph system resides. And so, you know, very large organ that connects us from head to toe.

 

It’s very, very important. And so what, Avi when he mapped the meridians, and map the chakras against these, I’m just gonna call them fascial planes, if you will, in the interstitial layer, there was a big mapping. And so we always say, you know, the cheese lineman, right?

 

Yeah, there was an alignment to the Qi and in Chinese medicine, you know, the QI always flows. And it’s our belief, you know, I think it’s probably reconciles is that the CI is what flows across this interstitial layer.

 

31:57

Yeah, so I guess it’s, you know, the same concept applying to different areas of medicine. And I think we’d be very in a place where it’s something new that Western medicine is starting to understand and learn and adopt. So you said that this was something that NYU discovered in 2018. So that’s really recent.

 

And for, you know, this will be a new area of medicine, that people will be spending more time and investments into to actually understand more, and if it can really help individuals who have pain management, power to it, man, I hope that this is something that, you know, we can see huge improvements born into the future, and we can actually help others with the pain issues as well, right?

 

32:37

Yeah, well, we very much feel the same. And you know, excited to get this out to the world, I’ll just share one other thing. Because I think it’s important to the discussion, and what you said about Western medicine is, so typically, Western medicine is trained on categoric bodies, which means, you know, people have passed away.

 

And so you’re training on these bodies. And one thing that we know is this connective tissue, it goes away really quickly when someone passes. And so part of the reason it’s our belief why this is, you know, so new, and really, under researched is the way medicines taught in this country. And so nobody’s fault, obviously, it’s just, if you’re dissecting bodies, and they don’t have this layer, of course, you’re not going to think about

 

33:21

it, you don’t even know that is really in existence in the first place. How do you learn something that you’re not aware about? Right? Exactly. You know, what, I can’t wait to see the future developments in modern medicine on the interstitial tissue and pain management, because I think it really helps so many people. So Christina, we’re talking about a future, what direction do you want to take the Truvia as you grow? So

 

33:39

we have a motto that, you know, pain is inevitable suffering is optional. And so I think, you know, we want to be able to get this to as many people as possible and you know, that takes a variety of forms, it’s, you know, making sure that we do an

 

amazing job with the clients that we serve, that we create the platform to enable other people to do the same. And give really the customer, the client, the choice. You know, there’s a lot of options out there, whether they are, you know, surgeries, whether it’s pills, or whether it’s these type of procedures, you know, I think there’s a place for all of it. Our view, is simply the body is so much smarter than we are and has this amazing ability to heal itself.

 

And so, we like to take the most natural approach, and really kind of just give the body a little bit of nudge, and try to heal itself before you maybe go to some of those other options that 100% are necessary in many cases.

 

But if we can avoid, call it unnecessary surgeries, if we can avoid people getting addicted to opioids, or if we can avoid, you know, somebody going in and getting cortisone steroid shots every year that we know has long term Dangerous degenerative effects, you know, that’s something that we would like to help out with,

 

35:04

I guess the idea is that what you’re offering is a non invasive form of treatment. And it could be a good alternative, maybe to invasive surgery itself.

 

35:12

Yeah. And look, there’s a lot of timing surgery is absolutely necessary. And so this is also something that, you know, we do a lot of cases post surgical, you know, post surgery, scarred scarring does happen. And, you know, sometimes there’s complications, which is unfortunate. And so, to the extent that we can repair the tissue after surgery, we do a lot of that.

 

And so we’re not looking to displace anybody, or we’re not looking to say that, you know, those options aren’t right. It’s a very kind of client case specific. And, look, we can’t help everyone, you know, there’s, we, if there’s tissue that is damaged, scarred, fused, and there’s nerves that are entrapped,

 

that’s something that we can very much help with, in some cases, you know, there’s some other stuff that’s going on that, you know, other options have to be explored.

 

36:00

I understand. No, Christian, if the listeners only remember one thing from today’s conversation, oh, we’d like it to be.

 

36:06

I think passion breeds purpose. So, you know, for me, this doesn’t feel like work. You know, this is something my mom’s always like, you work too much. I’m like, well, not really working. You know, I kind of enjoyed this.

 

So I think, you know, to the extent that you’re thinking about entrepreneurship, you’re thinking about investing. You know, this is such an amazing experience that we have to be on this earth and live this human experience. And so I would just encourage everyone to do it you’re super passionate about, I mean, you know, you’re doing this at seven in the morning, right now. And I know you’re gonna cut yourself from eight to 10pm.

 

And so you’re obviously living that. And I know, it’s trite. And a lot of people say it, but I would just, you know, encourage everyone to do it

 

36:47

know, Kristin, how can the listeners get in contact with you if you want to learn more about Vitruvius? Sure.

 

36:51

So for Truvia, it’s, the website is the trivia.co V i, t RUVIA. And then I’m most reachable on LinkedIn. It’s just my name, Christian, ch, ar, I STI n and then the last name, seal, just like the animal with an E on the end, SCA le and, you know, be delighted to connect with the listeners.

 

37:16

Yeah. And I’ll place all your contact details on the episode page. So if anyone who’s listening in right now is interested in the Truvia, and what do you have to offer, or they want to get in contact with Christian head on down to the episode page tatio.com.

 

That’s tdo.com to check it out. Now, Christian, thank you so much for joining us today. I certainly learned a lot from both the VC side of things and what Vitruvius really offering thank you for sharing your stories and your experience. I’m happy to make this connection.

 

37:45

Thank you for having me. Guys,

 

37:47

thank you so much for joining Christina Nye on today’s show. So one thing I took away from this conversation is what impact are you really creating in the world of your business? So for Christian is quite clear that his mission and goal for his businesses is to help people and improve the health care system.

 

When you have such a mission and goal, it becomes so meaningful to put down your head and work hard. And you can actually make money from the process. You know, great if you guys have such a mission, your business as well.

 

Good for you. And if you’re looking for one, I’m sure you’ll find it. Now as before, if you’ve received any value from the show, I would love for you to subscribe to the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts and to share the show with somebody who find it useful as well.

 

All of these tools and resources and my email list available on Ted to.com. That’s tdto.com. That’s all for me today. I’ll see you guys next time.