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00:00

Hey guys, it’s me, your friend and host Ted speaking. Today we’re covering the power of storytelling. Now storytelling is an important skill for any entrepreneur. So I hope you find this insightful. On today’s episode, we have Sam Erickson, who is the founder and head storyteller of the Storify agency, and he helps his clients clearly communicate their value to the marketplace through storytelling, with the killer for the study of neuroscience and psychology, and his wealth of experience in previous marketing projects, but global brands such as Barcelona FC Manchester City, Manchester United and Liverpool, Seth brings a unique perspective on using storytelling as an effective tool for communicating value to customers. So join us on today’s show where Seth shares the importance of communicating one’s value to one’s customers. What makes the slogan memorable, and various juicy facts and secrets on how our brains work. So guys, if you ever received any value from the show, they don’t deserve to get your support. The best way you can do this is to subscribe to the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts and to share the show with somebody who find it useful as well. And if you’d like to stay up to date with the latest episodes, tools and resources, then make sure you log on to Ted to.com. That’s tdt.com. And now let’s dive right in. Hey, Seth, thank you for joining us today. It’s so nice to have you here.

 

01:11

Oh, thank you. I’m glad to be here.

 

01:13

Seth. Let’s dive a little icebreaker so we can all get to know you a bit better. Please share verse, who is Seth Erickson when he isn’t working?

 

01:21

Seth Erickson when he isn’t working is going to jujitsu class, producing music on the side. Watching the latest. added a movie that I find interesting. Eating barbecue making tacos.

 

01:40

Oh, I love barbecue. You’re in Texas right now, aren’t you? Yes. So have you tried Franklin barbecue? Do you think you have to wait?

 

01:46

No. I so I actually went to Austin. And my friend was like, do you want to do Do you want to go to Franklin’s and I said sure. He’s like, well, it’s for our way or we could go to this place. It’s like, two blocks away and the food’s just as good. And we don’t we won’t have to wait four hours. I said well let’s do that then.

 

02:08

Yeah, cuz he heard it part of the journey of getting your Franklin barbecue mu is to start queuing around four in the morning and start drinking with random strangers and having a good time. You know? Yeah,

 

02:19

my friend took a bottle of jack drank a lot of it passed out and he was still in line waiting. hours later. So yeah, it’s it’s it’s a whole experience. It’s a whole journey. But yeah, the place I went down the street is called Mikkel Thwaites. And it’s, it’s basically they serve out of an old trailer with a smoker, a giant. Not just like a smoker, but like it’s like a smokehouse on a trailer hooked to the back of it and so guys, if you really didn’t know a barbecue I’d had last week Texas barbecue, I

 

02:56

did a show. Even review I

 

02:59

show somebody who Yeah, that stuff is all fake. So it tastes good outside of tech.

 

03:05

Oh, man, I really gotta try to set before we speak a little bit more about your current venture this agency share your best your journey. Could you tell us how you connected the dots? And how did you grow to become the person that you are today?

 

03:19

Yeah, so I think the easiest way or the best place to start with that is that I was a designer who built a web design agency. And that web design agency had a spectacular failure after our most profitable year, I had to layoff 22 people. About three months after we lost our three biggest clients. And they really wasn’t through any fault of our own. There were just kind of changes within the organization. We also had a startup that lost its round of funding. And as you know, if you don’t get your next round of funding, that’s kind of the kiss of death. When you’re out of cash, you did, yeah, yeah. And if if, if your current investors won’t continue to invest in you, then that signals that there’s some sort of problem to everybody else so. So I basically kind of went on, went on this walkabout for several years, trying to figure out what I was doing. And I had actually had a friend before the business fell apart or collapsed. That said, you know, you’re a storyteller. And he gave me this book called story wars by Jonah sacks. And I read that and I was like, wait a minute, you can make money doing storytelling and that storytelling was just for like screenwriters and and authors and dream come true. It’s. And so I read that book, and it it was so fascinating to me that I literally went out and got bought every book on Audible that I could get my hands on on storytelling. So I read the hero’s journey by Joseph Campbell. I read story by Robert McKee, which is really about screenwriting, but it’s about telling good stories. Lisa Kron has some has some great work. There’s quite a few others, I can’t even remember all of them. But I just started kind of just diving really deep. And as I was diving deep into, you know, storytelling and how to use storytelling, there were little bits and pieces of neuroscience that were starting to pop up. And I was like, well, this is fascinating. So I then went and read several 100 research papers on the topic. And started kind of putting together the pieces that like, this is, this isn’t just for entertainment. There’s a whole whole bunch of science that backs what, why story is so important, why it works so well with the human brain. And that’s where I kind of started to connect these pieces and come up with this concept of hacking humans. So it took me took me years to put it all together, but I, I made it.

 

05:58

Yeah, that was your journey. And that was your story is unique to you, man. Now serve. As you mentioned, I know you have a new book called how to hack humans. But before we speak about this, let’s take some time to talk about your current venture, the Storify agency, what does the Storify agency do?

 

06:12

So we basically, in simple in the simplest terms, we do storytelling and branding. But we do that with the goal of helping you communicate your value to investors and the marketplace at large. So there’s more to that, obviously, but just to keep it simple.

 

06:30

So if you actually wrote on your site that no one cares how the sausage is made, and that while tech startups, you know, they’re really excited about their product, they actually tend to fail to communicate its value to the customers. So if the value is unclear, customers simply don’t care. Now, could you share with us some tips maybe then an entrepreneur can adopt to better communicate the value of the goods or service that he’s actually offering to their customers to make them care about it?

 

06:54

Yeah. So often, what we see is, you know, startup will come to us and we they’re like, we have this amazing technology, right? It’s blockchain. It’s AI, it’s, you know, whatever. And most customers don’t even understand the difference between blockchain and AI, the early adopters, oh, yeah, definitely they do. But like, once you move into the wider market, like, you know, you know, Susie, and Tom is very esoteric. Yeah, they don’t care. They’re just like, does this product solve my problem? So the question you need to answer is the, why should I care? Right? That’s the question you need to be able to answer. And so you answer that by saying, this is the problem that my product solves. And you be clear and being very clear about that. And also, as you’ve probably seen it know that you really need to understand who your customer is. Because while storytelling is incredibly powerful, if you’re telling the wrong story to the wrong person, it’s not going to matter. So. So that’s the thing is, like, I quite often will, will say, start with a problem. If if people have that problem, then they’re going to listen. And if they listen, they’re becoming interested. And as you talk to them, and how you talk to them is also critical. If you’re spending all that all the time saying we our US are, you know, instantly saying you in your and talking to the customer about their problem, it really changes the conversation. And it makes people more receptive, if you’re talking to them instead of add them.

 

08:25

Yeah. So it’s always about identifying the problem that the customer has itself and crafting a story to communicate that value. How can your specific product or service solve it for them? Yes, exactly. So Seth, can you share some stories of how your own customers maybe had some challenges communicating their value to their customers? And how you help them? What was the difference in the response from their customers? After you were able to work them through the problems?

 

08:51

Yeah, so one of our, our clients, they, they’re sending a lot of emails, and those emails, were mostly about them. Right? They would say, you know, Hello, I’m so and so from XYZ agency, or company. You know, we’ve worked with, you know, Bank of America, and, you know, and Sony and edited, and, and then then they would pitch the product, right? And, and, and you should buy our amazing product. And it’s like, well, that whole conversation was about you, and how awesome you are, right? But it wasn’t really about the customer and the problem that the customer had. And so actually, through the pandemic, I don’t know where things are on your side of the world, but we’re apparently going back into it. We were able to by changing those emails, focusing on the problem that the customer had, changing the way that we were having the conversation through email and and talking to the customer like they’re like we’re actual humans, and they’re humans too. And we’re having a conversation. We were able to bring in was it like 4.3 or 4.7 million in new business, like during the pandemic,

 

10:05

and all you help them do was to actually change the way to communicate a value, right?

 

10:09

Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, like I said, it’s the example, I think that I gave in the book, and I give it in real life, too, is, it’s like, you go to a party, you meet somebody that you don’t know. And immediately they start trying to sell you. Well, what is your response gonna be? You’re like, I think I need to go somewhere else. Right? Like, yeah, we don’t like that. We’re as humans, we’re all. Yeah, we’re all interested in ourselves. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It keeps the human race alive. But so you have to understand that and you have to speak to people where they’re at, you know, like, one of the things that when I’ve talked to sales teams, and whatnot, and other people that are doing, you know, like outreach and things like that, I’m like, be curious, ask questions, right? Because that shows an interest in the person you’re talking to. Obviously, you can ask questions on email. But like, if you’re, you know, on LinkedIn, and you’re having a chat, like, I see the same thing, it’s the same same damn thing happening over and over again, it’s like people hit you up. They want to want to tell you about themselves. You don’t know them from Adam, you’ve never heard of him. And you’re like, Oh, no, gross. Get away from me.

 

11:21

Yeah, definitely. I’ve received so many of those kind of messages as well. Yes.

 

11:25

Yeah. Everybody has. And and, yeah, I mean, there’s chapter in the book where it called cold email pickup artists, and that, that addresses that specific problem. But it’s like you said, it’s not just a problem in email. It’s, it’s a problem in chat communications. It’s a problem in in advertising. And it’s just, it’s prevalent everywhere.

 

11:50

So Steph, I’m actually curious about this point, is the company’s story, the same thing as its brand, or are really separate from each other. Can you clarify this for us?

 

11:59

Yeah, well, so a good story. So like, if your company has a strong vision, right? That that is a story. This is where we want to go in the future, this is what we believe the future will, will look like. And that. And so I quite often see story, vision, brand, even culture, connected in these things. Because there’s always a story within within an organization and people and that story says, This is who we are, right? And then actions come out of those those things. And so your brand is basically more about the experience that you give people. Marty neumeier is a really famous brand who said, marketing is what you tell people branding is what people say about you. And the reason they say things good or bad about you is based on the experience they have, and your brand is a part of that. So

 

12:55

now, Seth, you were previously involved with marketing projects for some global brands such as Barcelona FC, Manchester City, Manchester United and Liverpool. Now, could you share with us what the experience was like? I’m sure the football fans would love to hear about this.

 

13:12

Yeah, so we, we worked with the startup that was the first called Mondo gold. That was the first fantasy soccer company and they, through their partnerships, partnered with all these, all these major clubs. And you know what, it wasn’t just Premier League. It was Syria. It was what’s what’s the Spanish league called? I

 

13:37

can’t remember La Liga.

 

13:39

La Liga. Thank you. I should know this. Yeah, we did did stuff I think with PSG as well. I mean, yeah, we basically got to work with the biggest clubs in the world. And so while I didn’t necessarily get to work with the clubs directly, we did a lot of promotions for things that their fans saw. I have a screenshot because I was watching a soccer game and I saw one of our ads come up in the background on one of their, their mega billboards, or not doing billboards, but like, TV, things that they have in the stadium and it was it was one of the proudest moments of my life.

 

14:16

So Seth, how do you feel when you saw that at common life? Do you think wow, I made that,

 

14:21

oh, it just was a trip. It was like Yeah, like you said, it was like I made that holy crap that’s on TV and all those fans are seeing it and and I knew that the fans of the different clubs were seeing the work that we were doing, through Mondo goal. And that was exciting because I am a soccer fan. You know, I watch us soccer and I have a I have a local team and Major League Soccer, which nobody in the rest of the world probably cares about. But I I care. I’m actually wearing a shirt with with their logo on it right now. So So I and you know, I watch a lot of international Soccer to like, Dortmund, I think is pretty good. I watch a lot of Buddhist league stuff. Not so much Premier League. So

 

15:08

you this the funny part, you’re from the United States, so you call it soccer. You know, everyone else calls it football. Yeah, cuz you’ll have a different definition of what football is in North America. Yeah,

 

15:19

our football doesn’t really require a fee, and we carry it around with our hands for the most part. doesn’t make any sense.

 

15:29

Yeah, well, no setlist compared to your book, how to hack humans? Could you share with us what this book is about? And what do you hope to achieve it?

 

15:37

Yeah, so the book is about storytelling. And it’s kind of broken up into what I would say three acts just like a movie or a play. It essentially is, it’s giving you the how, right? Like, or it’s diving into the neuroscience, helping you understand how the brain works. So that you know that the stuff I’m talking about isn’t just my opinion, right? I’m not just saying, well, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. So just listen to me, right? Like, I thought it was very important, is grounded in echo signs. Yes, exactly. And so. So the first step is really understanding the brain and how story affects the brain. And then the second section is, okay, what makes a good story, what is the recipe for a story, as stories are essentially patterns, and they’re repeating patterns, the hero’s journey being being the most popular. And the reason it’s the most popular is because through tons of archaeological, archaeological study, and oral history and everything else, we just keep seeing the same pattern repeating over and over again, it’s like, the golden rule or not the golden rule, the golden ratio. So it’s one of those patterns that we you can see it in a seashell and flowers, and it’s just it’s everywhere. And and so Joseph Campbell, and a lot of other really smart individuals started recognizing and going, I think there’s a pattern here, because we can look in India, we can look in China, you know, we can look in, in Israel, or Russia, and we see the same, the same kind of pattern happening in the story. And so they called it the hero’s journey. And so, so it’s understanding that pattern is it’s the most popular one, it’s not the only way to tell a story, but it is the most prevalent throughout history. And, and then understanding Well, what are the ingredients of the hero’s journey? And what are the pieces that you need to tell a good story. And then the third section really goes into application. And we were just talking about that a little bit before about emails and, you know, messaging on LinkedIn, things like that. How do you apply that principle correctly, and, and use it effectively in your business. So obviously, there’s more that we can do with the company. Yeah, but the book is a great primer, like anybody should be able to pick up that book, read it go, this makes sense. Oh, this is what I need. Here’s my ingredients. And here’s how I apply it. And so it’s like, I give you the recipe, I’m like, here’s the recipe, get the ingredients, and then I give you the instructions on on how to how to bake your cake. So that’s, that’s kind of how the book is broken down. And then there’s some additional bonus chapters of other other things that I felt like related to the entrepreneurial journey or, or the startup journey that I felt like were really important to include. So

 

18:23

not to the listeners, Cephas actually authored the first chapter of his book for free. So just log on to tatio.com. That’s tdt.com. And look out for says episode page. There’ll be a link where you can sign up and get a free chapter of SAS new book says, I noticed that each chapter of the book has a song recommended to it. Could you explain your intention behind this?

 

18:43

Yeah, so I’m a former rave DJ, in my 20s. And I’ve always loved dance music. And yeah, there’s actually a really funny story I could tell you about that. But I’ve always loved music. And because I was DJ, I always, you know, they have this term crate diving. So you’re like, you’re searching for music, you’re looking through crates, trying to find, you know, something that nobody else has heard. You want to, you’re part of your goal as a DJ is not only to, for people to have a good time, but you want to expose them to new music and, and new things. Right. And that’s exciting for everybody. So I’ve always had that kind of perspective. And I and so I have this vast wealth of musical knowledge and, and taste. And I started thinking and, and so the other side of that is, I’m a big movie fan. As you and I have talked, I’ve literally watched movies from all over the world, not just in the United States. I love movies. And I thought, well, if a movie can have a soundtrack, why can’t a book we have the technology. And so, yeah, so I basically created two playlists, one for Spotify, and one for YouTube. And then each song Either specifically captures the, like the feel of the chapter because, or the theme. Yeah, or the theme. And so, like, the first the introduction is actually of the book is called the anti boring s introduction. And it’s basically going against how most books do their introductions. And so I use the, the, the song, Welcome to the Jungle by Guns and Roses, because it just had that, like, things are about to get crazy. Yeah, kind of vibe to it. But I mean, I’m using music from all over the world. I mean, I’ve got a Japanese hip hop producer, I’ve got a French electronic band, I’ve got a English composer, I’ve got an Australian, you know, rock band. I mean, I, and it’s because of that kind of that DJ in me that’s like always trying to find cool new music. And, and so part of it was like, this book needs a soundtrack. But I was also like, Oh, this is kind of an opportunity to introduce some new music that other people probably have never heard of, like, one of the reviewers said, I don’t know that I know any of the music. Except for like Guns and Roses.

 

21:07

Man, I love Guns and Roses. scent is so interesting, because this book is really a direct reflection of who you are, and how you’ve connected the dots and your interests. Draw your own journey. Yeah,

 

21:17

yeah, definitely. It’s it wasn’t something I set out to do. It was kind of like, I, we had some downtime in the business. And I’m always like, how do I how do I be productive and take action so that I can move, move, move the business forward? And I went, when I think it was like a Monday or Tuesday, I was like, I’m writing a book. And then two and a half weeks later, Yeah, I did. I completed it. And then it took like, six months in editing.

 

21:48

But the first draft is always bad. And the magic is in the editing. Yeah, no, sir. One thing that stuck with me in your book was that you said you can make a bad idea good, even with storytelling. And that’s the fundamental premise that I think I would like to clear up for maybe the listeners as well, I think they have to be clear that no amount of storytelling will fix a bad idea or product curve. Yes.

 

22:10

Yeah, exactly. And that, and that’s one of the reasons I made that point right up front. Because like I said, you know, I’m passionate about storytelling, I love it. I want everybody to use it. But I also realize it’s not a magic bullet. Right? Like, some people will try to sell you their ideas. If it’s a if it’s a one, one size fits all, it’ll it’ll fix it for forever. No, a good story only works if it’s connected to, to the right product, right? But if if your startup idea is bad, and I, you know, and you say, hey, work with me, and I’m going to go great, I’ll help you create a story. And if you take it to the marketplace, and it’s just crickets, or not even crickets, then then it’s, it’s, it’s likely a mis misunderstanding of either the audience, or the concept for the startup, right? Because sometimes, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re pointing your idea at a specific group of people, and you’re like, these people are going to totally buy this. And then if you haven’t done enough market research, you might find out, no, this isn’t who’s going to buy it. Hence why we have terms like pivot in the startup world. Because sometimes the ideas, while they sound good on paper, aren’t, don’t execute the same way in the real world. And like I said, a good story is not going to help you gloss over that, or, or fix that problem.

 

23:38

So guys, as Seth has shared, a good story only works when the product is good as well. You can’t make a bad product, work with a good story, and no amount of dressing is really going to help you. So make sure that the minimum viable product is one that actually resonates with customers before you really start marketing and telling his story and bringing it to the world.

 

23:57

Yeah. Well, and, and what and how I see story kind of working is it helps helps show the value. But if there’s no value there, there’s nothing that can be shown. Right? Like, I can’t tell you I’ve got a box of gold and then open the box. And there’s nothing there. In this. Yeah.

 

24:17

So Seth, you also wrote about the power of slogans. Can you share a little bit more about this as well, and maybe some examples of what makes a great slogan.

 

24:26

There’s there’s quite a few things that that make for a good slogan. Essentially, you can think of a good slogan as being well, some are temporary and some are permanent. But you can think of it almost as the bookends to your story. That I mean that’s that’s how I think about I don’t know if I talked about that in the book specifically. But quite often, when we’re crafting stories for people, we can kind of take the beginning and the end of the story and put it together and say, you know, this is where you start and this is where you finish and that’s what makes a good story but in you know, a slogan You know, it needs to be memorable. And so it you know, if you can tell a short story, you know, problem solution is the shortest story you can tell if you can tell a story with a good slogan, if you can make it visual, somehow that helps, helps people remember better. If you can add emotion, that’s another thing that really helps a slogan work. You know, I think in the book, I talked about Disneyland slogan used to be the happiest place on earth, I don’t know if it still is the happiest place on earth. So they’re, they’re creating a picture, there’s this place. Happiness, they’re attaching happiness, right? That is an emotion. And, you know, they’re saying it in five words, that’s not necessarily the problem solution format that I like using, but it works, right. Like, I, I remember that from the 80s from being a kid, you know, and thinking I want to go to the happiest place on earth. That sounds amazing. Yeah, so so. So those are just some of the some of the aspects of kind of making a slogan. And, and there’s a great book on the on the topic of how to make idea sticky, which a good slogan is sticky, called, Made to Stick. And it’s written by Dan Heath. So that’s another great resource for people who want to want to work on, you know, a tagline, or a slogan or something, they can definitely read through that book and look at all the I think they have like six different elements that they look for, to help craft a good phrase, or a slogan, or things like that. Like, I don’t know, I’m assuming that you probably have some form of like a phrase like, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. It’s Canadian. Yeah. Like the book talks about how that phrase is repeated. It’s been repeated for hundreds of years across cultures, but there’s no marketing campaign for for that idiom. You know, sour grapes is another one. All these come from Aesop’s Fables. And it’s just, you know, good storytelling lives on. So

 

27:25

yeah, yeah. In fact, what really stuck with me was when you wrote about this, in the book, you said that the use of the term happiness actually creates an emotion in the minds of the customers. And I think this really makes sense. Because when you start bringing emotions in, it actually helps to create this long term memory. And it really helps to resonate with them on a human level as well.

 

27:43

Yeah, so without emotion in your story, you essentially don’t get any action. It is our emotions that spur us to action, whether it’s happiness, or sadness, or anger, good or bad. Emotions will spur us to action. And so I think in the book, I gave the example of like, if I told you, oh, I went to the store today, and I bought milk and cheese and eggs, you’d be like, okay, I mean, that is a story, technically. But if I said, You know, I Went, went to the store, and I was walking to the parking lot, and I don’t know where this lady hit me with her car. Well, if you’re my friend, then you’re gonna be going, well what happened? You know, like, Did she stopped it? You know, are you okay? Did you go to the hot like, you know, and now my emotions are getting kind of brought into that situation, which also is pulling in my curiosity, right? And it’s, and it’s making me listen more, it’s making me more focused on what you’re saying. And so. So that’s, that is one of the one of the ingredients that we, we talked about in storytelling is using empathetic or empathy in and how you talk to your customers, and letting them know that you truly understand them, and that you truly care about them. And that you’re not just like, shining them on and making shit up.

 

29:05

Yeah, I fully agree, man. So Seth, another great tip that you left was that your home page should have only a few 100 words in most because viewers make a greater impact. Could you share with us maybe some of the psychology behind this as well?

 

29:17

Yeah. So one of the things that the brain does is it’s always trying to conserve energy. And, and so quite often, that’s how we we find ourselves in situations where like, Oh, I don’t really want to put in the effort to do this thing or that thing. And reading is the same way. It requires a lot of brain power. And so what happens is the brain it looks at things in big chunks, it’ll look at it, it’ll go Okay, there’s paragraph, paragraph paragraph. And then it’ll kind of go Okay, there’s this many lines, and it’s this many words, and a lot of this has just happened subconsciously. In our conscious mind, we’re not really realizing how the brain is kind of breaking things down and it does is the same thing in InDesign as well. But when it sees a wall of text, it goes, That’s too much effort, right? Like I’ve just hit this page for the first time, I’m not invested, I may not be invested in. So that looks like a lot of effort to go through and read all that content. And so you have to kind of keep things short and broken up into big chunks, use a lot of whitespace to, to kind of go and then use, like things like hierarchy of like typographic and things like that. Biggest things, most important, medium sized things, less important, smallest things really important. But you don’t want the brain going, Oh, everything’s really important, right? Because it’s just gonna take calories and effort. And, and so. So if you can get your point across in less words, then that’s really key. I mean, when we help people tell their story we’re looking to do do it in, you know, a couple 100 words or so. And then we can use those pieces and break them up until we can, you know, like I mentioned earlier, there’s like problem solution, you put that right at the top of the page, you know, and that could be a sentence, one sentence, and then maybe a sub sentence or two, or three, and then, and then you need to go into diving into that problem a little bit more, kind of making the pain felt, right, because you can talk about a problem, and then you kind of, you got to stick your finger into it, and amplify that, right? And that’s where the emotions start to come in. Oh, yeah, I really do have that problem. And oh, crap, that that problem really is painful. I hadn’t really thought about it that way. And then again, you’re using emotion again, to kind of go a little bit further and say, Look, we understand this problem, you know, we had this problem. That’s why we created the solution to solve it. Or we experienced this ourselves, right, like just showing some sort of empathy, the way that a mentor would to, to the hero in the hero’s journey. And we’re talking Obi Wan Kenobi to Luke Skywalker. haymitch to Katniss Everdeen. You know, the, yeah. I mean, you know, the teachers in Harry Potter act as mentors, mentors to the students, right to help them get better. And, and so there’s always somebody in our lives that so I’m sorry, I’m going a little off track here. But there’s always somebody in our life that is helping us improve and get better.

 

32:31

So guys, as Seth has said, the fewer words, the bigger impact. So be very conscious about the word content you have left in your web page, don’t stop it with words, because a first time reader may not be invested in you and your content, and he may just decide to drop off.

 

32:44

Yeah, so one of the examples I give is, you need it. Like, you need to find out if somebody has a headache, so you can sell them aspirin, essentially. Right? And if they come there, and they’re and you’re like, do you have a headache? They’re like, No, well, then they’re probably not your customer, right? Like, or you’re not talking about the problem in the right way. You’re saying does your elbow hurt? When really You mean it? You know, do you have a headache? You know, there’s, that can be a problem in communication. But again, that that’s a lack of understanding of who the customer is, and what they really need. So that’s a different problem than what storytelling would solve for them.

 

33:20

Oh, right. So Seth, could you share with us one Fun fact that you really enjoy about neuroscience and psychology?

 

33:25

There are so many. So I think one of the things that I think is most interesting is that they found that when a storyteller is telling a story, and the audience is engaged, that the brainwaves of the storyteller, and the brainwaves of the audience actually synchronize Whoa, right. So cool. Yeah. It’s like trippy science fiction type stuff, right? Like, stuff we just didn’t know until science started poking around in there and trying to go, well, what’s actually happening here? Yeah, and so they did this study where they hooked up the storytellers brain and the brains of of a pretty large audience. I think it was like 1000 people to all these diodes. And they just kind of watched the brain frequencies and the person started telling the story, and it was really engaging. And they just started watching them all synchronized. And there’s a actually a great video where the, the neuroscientist, I think he was doing the experiment talked about this, he said, it’s like, having a bunch of metronomes and then they’re all off time. And slowly over time, they just start getting in sync with one another. And, and so it doesn’t happen instantly. It just it takes a little bit of time. But eventually they’re all like all going Tick tock tick tock together. And so that’s that’s a very powerful concept and and a little bit trippy. And so that’s, I think one of my favorite concepts of what we’ve learned about neuroscience and storytelling, so thank

 

34:53

you for blowing my mind. So but if the listeners only remember one thing from today’s conversation, well, we like Get to be

 

35:00

that story is more powerful than, than we realize. And, and so using it, using it effectively can really help you, you know, build your startup build your brand. And, and, and also create an amazing culture in your startup, you know, so it’s not just uh, it works in a lot of different areas, it’s not just a thing you do, you know, for movies or, you know, that crazy uncle comes over and tells you hilarious stories, you know, it’s it’s a way of transferring information. It’s a way of connecting with with humans and, and your audience. And I think all of those things are immensely important to new companies that are, you know, getting off the ground and finding their way in the world.

 

35:50

So Seth, how can the listeners get in contact with you if they need your help?

 

35:54

Just go to story fi agency. COMM Storify is s t o r IFY agency.com. And

 

36:04

there’s a schedule a call button or something there and you can, we can schedule a quick 15 minute call and see if we’re a good fit.

 

36:12

So Seth, thank you for joining me today and sharing all your stories. My mind is definitely blown. Thank you.

 

36:18

You’re welcome. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

 

36:21

guys. Thank you for joining me and Stefan today’s episode, I hope you’ve learned a little bit about the importance of storytelling and the power behind it as well. Remember to download a free chapter of his new book how to hack humans on his episode page on tattoos calm. Now guys to stay up to date with all the latest episodes, tools and resources that make sure to log on to tatio.com that’s tt.com. And even better yet, sign up for our newsletter and you’ll hear from me directly. And as before, if you’ve received any value from the show, then I’d love to get your support. The best way you can show this is to subscribe to the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts and to share the show with somebody who will find it useful as well. That’s all for me today. I’ll see you next time.

[This transcript has been automatically generated by a digital software and will therefore  contain errors and typos. Please kindly take note of this and only rely on the digital transcript for reference.]

00:00

Hey guys, it’s me, your friend and host Ted speaking. Today we’re covering the power of storytelling. Now storytelling is an important skill for any entrepreneur. So I hope you find this insightful. On today’s episode, we have Sam Erickson, who is the founder and head storyteller of the Storify agency, and he helps his clients clearly communicate their value to the marketplace through storytelling, with the killer for the study of neuroscience and psychology, and his wealth of experience in previous marketing projects, but global brands such as Barcelona FC Manchester City, Manchester United and Liverpool, Seth brings a unique perspective on using storytelling as an effective tool for communicating value to customers. So join us on today’s show where Seth shares the importance of communicating one’s value to one’s customers. What makes the slogan memorable, and various juicy facts and secrets on how our brains work. So guys, if you ever received any value from the show, they don’t deserve to get your support. The best way you can do this is to subscribe to the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts and to share the show with somebody who find it useful as well. And if you’d like to stay up to date with the latest episodes, tools and resources, then make sure you log on to Ted to.com. That’s tdt.com. And now let’s dive right in. Hey, Seth, thank you for joining us today. It’s so nice to have you here.

 

01:11

Oh, thank you. I’m glad to be here.

 

01:13

Seth. Let’s dive a little icebreaker so we can all get to know you a bit better. Please share verse, who is Seth Erickson when he isn’t working?

 

01:21

Seth Erickson when he isn’t working is going to jujitsu class, producing music on the side. Watching the latest. added a movie that I find interesting. Eating barbecue making tacos.

 

01:40

Oh, I love barbecue. You’re in Texas right now, aren’t you? Yes. So have you tried Franklin barbecue? Do you think you have to wait?

 

01:46

No. I so I actually went to Austin. And my friend was like, do you want to do Do you want to go to Franklin’s and I said sure. He’s like, well, it’s for our way or we could go to this place. It’s like, two blocks away and the food’s just as good. And we don’t we won’t have to wait four hours. I said well let’s do that then.

 

02:08

Yeah, cuz he heard it part of the journey of getting your Franklin barbecue mu is to start queuing around four in the morning and start drinking with random strangers and having a good time. You know? Yeah,

 

02:19

my friend took a bottle of jack drank a lot of it passed out and he was still in line waiting. hours later. So yeah, it’s it’s it’s a whole experience. It’s a whole journey. But yeah, the place I went down the street is called Mikkel Thwaites. And it’s, it’s basically they serve out of an old trailer with a smoker, a giant. Not just like a smoker, but like it’s like a smokehouse on a trailer hooked to the back of it and so guys, if you really didn’t know a barbecue I’d had last week Texas barbecue, I

 

02:56

did a show. Even review I

 

02:59

show somebody who Yeah, that stuff is all fake. So it tastes good outside of tech.

 

03:05

Oh, man, I really gotta try to set before we speak a little bit more about your current venture this agency share your best your journey. Could you tell us how you connected the dots? And how did you grow to become the person that you are today?

 

03:19

Yeah, so I think the easiest way or the best place to start with that is that I was a designer who built a web design agency. And that web design agency had a spectacular failure after our most profitable year, I had to layoff 22 people. About three months after we lost our three biggest clients. And they really wasn’t through any fault of our own. There were just kind of changes within the organization. We also had a startup that lost its round of funding. And as you know, if you don’t get your next round of funding, that’s kind of the kiss of death. When you’re out of cash, you did, yeah, yeah. And if if, if your current investors won’t continue to invest in you, then that signals that there’s some sort of problem to everybody else so. So I basically kind of went on, went on this walkabout for several years, trying to figure out what I was doing. And I had actually had a friend before the business fell apart or collapsed. That said, you know, you’re a storyteller. And he gave me this book called story wars by Jonah sacks. And I read that and I was like, wait a minute, you can make money doing storytelling and that storytelling was just for like screenwriters and and authors and dream come true. It’s. And so I read that book, and it it was so fascinating to me that I literally went out and got bought every book on Audible that I could get my hands on on storytelling. So I read the hero’s journey by Joseph Campbell. I read story by Robert McKee, which is really about screenwriting, but it’s about telling good stories. Lisa Kron has some has some great work. There’s quite a few others, I can’t even remember all of them. But I just started kind of just diving really deep. And as I was diving deep into, you know, storytelling and how to use storytelling, there were little bits and pieces of neuroscience that were starting to pop up. And I was like, well, this is fascinating. So I then went and read several 100 research papers on the topic. And started kind of putting together the pieces that like, this is, this isn’t just for entertainment. There’s a whole whole bunch of science that backs what, why story is so important, why it works so well with the human brain. And that’s where I kind of started to connect these pieces and come up with this concept of hacking humans. So it took me took me years to put it all together, but I, I made it.

 

05:58

Yeah, that was your journey. And that was your story is unique to you, man. Now serve. As you mentioned, I know you have a new book called how to hack humans. But before we speak about this, let’s take some time to talk about your current venture, the Storify agency, what does the Storify agency do?

 

06:12

So we basically, in simple in the simplest terms, we do storytelling and branding. But we do that with the goal of helping you communicate your value to investors and the marketplace at large. So there’s more to that, obviously, but just to keep it simple.

 

06:30

So if you actually wrote on your site that no one cares how the sausage is made, and that while tech startups, you know, they’re really excited about their product, they actually tend to fail to communicate its value to the customers. So if the value is unclear, customers simply don’t care. Now, could you share with us some tips maybe then an entrepreneur can adopt to better communicate the value of the goods or service that he’s actually offering to their customers to make them care about it?

 

06:54

Yeah. So often, what we see is, you know, startup will come to us and we they’re like, we have this amazing technology, right? It’s blockchain. It’s AI, it’s, you know, whatever. And most customers don’t even understand the difference between blockchain and AI, the early adopters, oh, yeah, definitely they do. But like, once you move into the wider market, like, you know, you know, Susie, and Tom is very esoteric. Yeah, they don’t care. They’re just like, does this product solve my problem? So the question you need to answer is the, why should I care? Right? That’s the question you need to be able to answer. And so you answer that by saying, this is the problem that my product solves. And you be clear and being very clear about that. And also, as you’ve probably seen it know that you really need to understand who your customer is. Because while storytelling is incredibly powerful, if you’re telling the wrong story to the wrong person, it’s not going to matter. So. So that’s the thing is, like, I quite often will, will say, start with a problem. If if people have that problem, then they’re going to listen. And if they listen, they’re becoming interested. And as you talk to them, and how you talk to them is also critical. If you’re spending all that all the time saying we our US are, you know, instantly saying you in your and talking to the customer about their problem, it really changes the conversation. And it makes people more receptive, if you’re talking to them instead of add them.

 

08:25

Yeah. So it’s always about identifying the problem that the customer has itself and crafting a story to communicate that value. How can your specific product or service solve it for them? Yes, exactly. So Seth, can you share some stories of how your own customers maybe had some challenges communicating their value to their customers? And how you help them? What was the difference in the response from their customers? After you were able to work them through the problems?

 

08:51

Yeah, so one of our, our clients, they, they’re sending a lot of emails, and those emails, were mostly about them. Right? They would say, you know, Hello, I’m so and so from XYZ agency, or company. You know, we’ve worked with, you know, Bank of America, and, you know, and Sony and edited, and, and then then they would pitch the product, right? And, and, and you should buy our amazing product. And it’s like, well, that whole conversation was about you, and how awesome you are, right? But it wasn’t really about the customer and the problem that the customer had. And so actually, through the pandemic, I don’t know where things are on your side of the world, but we’re apparently going back into it. We were able to by changing those emails, focusing on the problem that the customer had, changing the way that we were having the conversation through email and and talking to the customer like they’re like we’re actual humans, and they’re humans too. And we’re having a conversation. We were able to bring in was it like 4.3 or 4.7 million in new business, like during the pandemic,

 

10:05

and all you help them do was to actually change the way to communicate a value, right?

 

10:09

Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, like I said, it’s the example, I think that I gave in the book, and I give it in real life, too, is, it’s like, you go to a party, you meet somebody that you don’t know. And immediately they start trying to sell you. Well, what is your response gonna be? You’re like, I think I need to go somewhere else. Right? Like, yeah, we don’t like that. We’re as humans, we’re all. Yeah, we’re all interested in ourselves. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It keeps the human race alive. But so you have to understand that and you have to speak to people where they’re at, you know, like, one of the things that when I’ve talked to sales teams, and whatnot, and other people that are doing, you know, like outreach and things like that, I’m like, be curious, ask questions, right? Because that shows an interest in the person you’re talking to. Obviously, you can ask questions on email. But like, if you’re, you know, on LinkedIn, and you’re having a chat, like, I see the same thing, it’s the same same damn thing happening over and over again, it’s like people hit you up. They want to want to tell you about themselves. You don’t know them from Adam, you’ve never heard of him. And you’re like, Oh, no, gross. Get away from me.

 

11:21

Yeah, definitely. I’ve received so many of those kind of messages as well. Yes.

 

11:25

Yeah. Everybody has. And and, yeah, I mean, there’s chapter in the book where it called cold email pickup artists, and that, that addresses that specific problem. But it’s like you said, it’s not just a problem in email. It’s, it’s a problem in chat communications. It’s a problem in in advertising. And it’s just, it’s prevalent everywhere.

 

11:50

So Steph, I’m actually curious about this point, is the company’s story, the same thing as its brand, or are really separate from each other. Can you clarify this for us?

 

11:59

Yeah, well, so a good story. So like, if your company has a strong vision, right? That that is a story. This is where we want to go in the future, this is what we believe the future will, will look like. And that. And so I quite often see story, vision, brand, even culture, connected in these things. Because there’s always a story within within an organization and people and that story says, This is who we are, right? And then actions come out of those those things. And so your brand is basically more about the experience that you give people. Marty neumeier is a really famous brand who said, marketing is what you tell people branding is what people say about you. And the reason they say things good or bad about you is based on the experience they have, and your brand is a part of that. So

 

12:55

now, Seth, you were previously involved with marketing projects for some global brands such as Barcelona FC, Manchester City, Manchester United and Liverpool. Now, could you share with us what the experience was like? I’m sure the football fans would love to hear about this.

 

13:12

Yeah, so we, we worked with the startup that was the first called Mondo gold. That was the first fantasy soccer company and they, through their partnerships, partnered with all these, all these major clubs. And you know what, it wasn’t just Premier League. It was Syria. It was what’s what’s the Spanish league called? I

 

13:37

can’t remember La Liga.

 

13:39

La Liga. Thank you. I should know this. Yeah, we did did stuff I think with PSG as well. I mean, yeah, we basically got to work with the biggest clubs in the world. And so while I didn’t necessarily get to work with the clubs directly, we did a lot of promotions for things that their fans saw. I have a screenshot because I was watching a soccer game and I saw one of our ads come up in the background on one of their, their mega billboards, or not doing billboards, but like, TV, things that they have in the stadium and it was it was one of the proudest moments of my life.

 

14:16

So Seth, how do you feel when you saw that at common life? Do you think wow, I made that,

 

14:21

oh, it just was a trip. It was like Yeah, like you said, it was like I made that holy crap that’s on TV and all those fans are seeing it and and I knew that the fans of the different clubs were seeing the work that we were doing, through Mondo goal. And that was exciting because I am a soccer fan. You know, I watch us soccer and I have a I have a local team and Major League Soccer, which nobody in the rest of the world probably cares about. But I I care. I’m actually wearing a shirt with with their logo on it right now. So So I and you know, I watch a lot of international Soccer to like, Dortmund, I think is pretty good. I watch a lot of Buddhist league stuff. Not so much Premier League. So

 

15:08

you this the funny part, you’re from the United States, so you call it soccer. You know, everyone else calls it football. Yeah, cuz you’ll have a different definition of what football is in North America. Yeah,

 

15:19

our football doesn’t really require a fee, and we carry it around with our hands for the most part. doesn’t make any sense.

 

15:29

Yeah, well, no setlist compared to your book, how to hack humans? Could you share with us what this book is about? And what do you hope to achieve it?

 

15:37

Yeah, so the book is about storytelling. And it’s kind of broken up into what I would say three acts just like a movie or a play. It essentially is, it’s giving you the how, right? Like, or it’s diving into the neuroscience, helping you understand how the brain works. So that you know that the stuff I’m talking about isn’t just my opinion, right? I’m not just saying, well, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. So just listen to me, right? Like, I thought it was very important, is grounded in echo signs. Yes, exactly. And so. So the first step is really understanding the brain and how story affects the brain. And then the second section is, okay, what makes a good story, what is the recipe for a story, as stories are essentially patterns, and they’re repeating patterns, the hero’s journey being being the most popular. And the reason it’s the most popular is because through tons of archaeological, archaeological study, and oral history and everything else, we just keep seeing the same pattern repeating over and over again, it’s like, the golden rule or not the golden rule, the golden ratio. So it’s one of those patterns that we you can see it in a seashell and flowers, and it’s just it’s everywhere. And and so Joseph Campbell, and a lot of other really smart individuals started recognizing and going, I think there’s a pattern here, because we can look in India, we can look in China, you know, we can look in, in Israel, or Russia, and we see the same, the same kind of pattern happening in the story. And so they called it the hero’s journey. And so, so it’s understanding that pattern is it’s the most popular one, it’s not the only way to tell a story, but it is the most prevalent throughout history. And, and then understanding Well, what are the ingredients of the hero’s journey? And what are the pieces that you need to tell a good story. And then the third section really goes into application. And we were just talking about that a little bit before about emails and, you know, messaging on LinkedIn, things like that. How do you apply that principle correctly, and, and use it effectively in your business. So obviously, there’s more that we can do with the company. Yeah, but the book is a great primer, like anybody should be able to pick up that book, read it go, this makes sense. Oh, this is what I need. Here’s my ingredients. And here’s how I apply it. And so it’s like, I give you the recipe, I’m like, here’s the recipe, get the ingredients, and then I give you the instructions on on how to how to bake your cake. So that’s, that’s kind of how the book is broken down. And then there’s some additional bonus chapters of other other things that I felt like related to the entrepreneurial journey or, or the startup journey that I felt like were really important to include. So

 

18:23

not to the listeners, Cephas actually authored the first chapter of his book for free. So just log on to tatio.com. That’s tdt.com. And look out for says episode page. There’ll be a link where you can sign up and get a free chapter of SAS new book says, I noticed that each chapter of the book has a song recommended to it. Could you explain your intention behind this?

 

18:43

Yeah, so I’m a former rave DJ, in my 20s. And I’ve always loved dance music. And yeah, there’s actually a really funny story I could tell you about that. But I’ve always loved music. And because I was DJ, I always, you know, they have this term crate diving. So you’re like, you’re searching for music, you’re looking through crates, trying to find, you know, something that nobody else has heard. You want to, you’re part of your goal as a DJ is not only to, for people to have a good time, but you want to expose them to new music and, and new things. Right. And that’s exciting for everybody. So I’ve always had that kind of perspective. And I and so I have this vast wealth of musical knowledge and, and taste. And I started thinking and, and so the other side of that is, I’m a big movie fan. As you and I have talked, I’ve literally watched movies from all over the world, not just in the United States. I love movies. And I thought, well, if a movie can have a soundtrack, why can’t a book we have the technology. And so, yeah, so I basically created two playlists, one for Spotify, and one for YouTube. And then each song Either specifically captures the, like the feel of the chapter because, or the theme. Yeah, or the theme. And so, like, the first the introduction is actually of the book is called the anti boring s introduction. And it’s basically going against how most books do their introductions. And so I use the, the, the song, Welcome to the Jungle by Guns and Roses, because it just had that, like, things are about to get crazy. Yeah, kind of vibe to it. But I mean, I’m using music from all over the world. I mean, I’ve got a Japanese hip hop producer, I’ve got a French electronic band, I’ve got a English composer, I’ve got an Australian, you know, rock band. I mean, I, and it’s because of that kind of that DJ in me that’s like always trying to find cool new music. And, and so part of it was like, this book needs a soundtrack. But I was also like, Oh, this is kind of an opportunity to introduce some new music that other people probably have never heard of, like, one of the reviewers said, I don’t know that I know any of the music. Except for like Guns and Roses.

 

21:07

Man, I love Guns and Roses. scent is so interesting, because this book is really a direct reflection of who you are, and how you’ve connected the dots and your interests. Draw your own journey. Yeah,

 

21:17

yeah, definitely. It’s it wasn’t something I set out to do. It was kind of like, I, we had some downtime in the business. And I’m always like, how do I how do I be productive and take action so that I can move, move, move the business forward? And I went, when I think it was like a Monday or Tuesday, I was like, I’m writing a book. And then two and a half weeks later, Yeah, I did. I completed it. And then it took like, six months in editing.

 

21:48

But the first draft is always bad. And the magic is in the editing. Yeah, no, sir. One thing that stuck with me in your book was that you said you can make a bad idea good, even with storytelling. And that’s the fundamental premise that I think I would like to clear up for maybe the listeners as well, I think they have to be clear that no amount of storytelling will fix a bad idea or product curve. Yes.

 

22:10

Yeah, exactly. And that, and that’s one of the reasons I made that point right up front. Because like I said, you know, I’m passionate about storytelling, I love it. I want everybody to use it. But I also realize it’s not a magic bullet. Right? Like, some people will try to sell you their ideas. If it’s a if it’s a one, one size fits all, it’ll it’ll fix it for forever. No, a good story only works if it’s connected to, to the right product, right? But if if your startup idea is bad, and I, you know, and you say, hey, work with me, and I’m going to go great, I’ll help you create a story. And if you take it to the marketplace, and it’s just crickets, or not even crickets, then then it’s, it’s, it’s likely a mis misunderstanding of either the audience, or the concept for the startup, right? Because sometimes, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re pointing your idea at a specific group of people, and you’re like, these people are going to totally buy this. And then if you haven’t done enough market research, you might find out, no, this isn’t who’s going to buy it. Hence why we have terms like pivot in the startup world. Because sometimes the ideas, while they sound good on paper, aren’t, don’t execute the same way in the real world. And like I said, a good story is not going to help you gloss over that, or, or fix that problem.

 

23:38

So guys, as Seth has shared, a good story only works when the product is good as well. You can’t make a bad product, work with a good story, and no amount of dressing is really going to help you. So make sure that the minimum viable product is one that actually resonates with customers before you really start marketing and telling his story and bringing it to the world.

 

23:57

Yeah. Well, and, and what and how I see story kind of working is it helps helps show the value. But if there’s no value there, there’s nothing that can be shown. Right? Like, I can’t tell you I’ve got a box of gold and then open the box. And there’s nothing there. In this. Yeah.

 

24:17

So Seth, you also wrote about the power of slogans. Can you share a little bit more about this as well, and maybe some examples of what makes a great slogan.

 

24:26

There’s there’s quite a few things that that make for a good slogan. Essentially, you can think of a good slogan as being well, some are temporary and some are permanent. But you can think of it almost as the bookends to your story. That I mean that’s that’s how I think about I don’t know if I talked about that in the book specifically. But quite often, when we’re crafting stories for people, we can kind of take the beginning and the end of the story and put it together and say, you know, this is where you start and this is where you finish and that’s what makes a good story but in you know, a slogan You know, it needs to be memorable. And so it you know, if you can tell a short story, you know, problem solution is the shortest story you can tell if you can tell a story with a good slogan, if you can make it visual, somehow that helps, helps people remember better. If you can add emotion, that’s another thing that really helps a slogan work. You know, I think in the book, I talked about Disneyland slogan used to be the happiest place on earth, I don’t know if it still is the happiest place on earth. So they’re, they’re creating a picture, there’s this place. Happiness, they’re attaching happiness, right? That is an emotion. And, you know, they’re saying it in five words, that’s not necessarily the problem solution format that I like using, but it works, right. Like, I, I remember that from the 80s from being a kid, you know, and thinking I want to go to the happiest place on earth. That sounds amazing. Yeah, so so. So those are just some of the some of the aspects of kind of making a slogan. And, and there’s a great book on the on the topic of how to make idea sticky, which a good slogan is sticky, called, Made to Stick. And it’s written by Dan Heath. So that’s another great resource for people who want to want to work on, you know, a tagline, or a slogan or something, they can definitely read through that book and look at all the I think they have like six different elements that they look for, to help craft a good phrase, or a slogan, or things like that. Like, I don’t know, I’m assuming that you probably have some form of like a phrase like, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. It’s Canadian. Yeah. Like the book talks about how that phrase is repeated. It’s been repeated for hundreds of years across cultures, but there’s no marketing campaign for for that idiom. You know, sour grapes is another one. All these come from Aesop’s Fables. And it’s just, you know, good storytelling lives on. So

 

27:25

yeah, yeah. In fact, what really stuck with me was when you wrote about this, in the book, you said that the use of the term happiness actually creates an emotion in the minds of the customers. And I think this really makes sense. Because when you start bringing emotions in, it actually helps to create this long term memory. And it really helps to resonate with them on a human level as well.

 

27:43

Yeah, so without emotion in your story, you essentially don’t get any action. It is our emotions that spur us to action, whether it’s happiness, or sadness, or anger, good or bad. Emotions will spur us to action. And so I think in the book, I gave the example of like, if I told you, oh, I went to the store today, and I bought milk and cheese and eggs, you’d be like, okay, I mean, that is a story, technically. But if I said, You know, I Went, went to the store, and I was walking to the parking lot, and I don’t know where this lady hit me with her car. Well, if you’re my friend, then you’re gonna be going, well what happened? You know, like, Did she stopped it? You know, are you okay? Did you go to the hot like, you know, and now my emotions are getting kind of brought into that situation, which also is pulling in my curiosity, right? And it’s, and it’s making me listen more, it’s making me more focused on what you’re saying. And so. So that’s, that is one of the one of the ingredients that we, we talked about in storytelling is using empathetic or empathy in and how you talk to your customers, and letting them know that you truly understand them, and that you truly care about them. And that you’re not just like, shining them on and making shit up.

 

29:05

Yeah, I fully agree, man. So Seth, another great tip that you left was that your home page should have only a few 100 words in most because viewers make a greater impact. Could you share with us maybe some of the psychology behind this as well?

 

29:17

Yeah. So one of the things that the brain does is it’s always trying to conserve energy. And, and so quite often, that’s how we we find ourselves in situations where like, Oh, I don’t really want to put in the effort to do this thing or that thing. And reading is the same way. It requires a lot of brain power. And so what happens is the brain it looks at things in big chunks, it’ll look at it, it’ll go Okay, there’s paragraph, paragraph paragraph. And then it’ll kind of go Okay, there’s this many lines, and it’s this many words, and a lot of this has just happened subconsciously. In our conscious mind, we’re not really realizing how the brain is kind of breaking things down and it does is the same thing in InDesign as well. But when it sees a wall of text, it goes, That’s too much effort, right? Like I’ve just hit this page for the first time, I’m not invested, I may not be invested in. So that looks like a lot of effort to go through and read all that content. And so you have to kind of keep things short and broken up into big chunks, use a lot of whitespace to, to kind of go and then use, like things like hierarchy of like typographic and things like that. Biggest things, most important, medium sized things, less important, smallest things really important. But you don’t want the brain going, Oh, everything’s really important, right? Because it’s just gonna take calories and effort. And, and so. So if you can get your point across in less words, then that’s really key. I mean, when we help people tell their story we’re looking to do do it in, you know, a couple 100 words or so. And then we can use those pieces and break them up until we can, you know, like I mentioned earlier, there’s like problem solution, you put that right at the top of the page, you know, and that could be a sentence, one sentence, and then maybe a sub sentence or two, or three, and then, and then you need to go into diving into that problem a little bit more, kind of making the pain felt, right, because you can talk about a problem, and then you kind of, you got to stick your finger into it, and amplify that, right? And that’s where the emotions start to come in. Oh, yeah, I really do have that problem. And oh, crap, that that problem really is painful. I hadn’t really thought about it that way. And then again, you’re using emotion again, to kind of go a little bit further and say, Look, we understand this problem, you know, we had this problem. That’s why we created the solution to solve it. Or we experienced this ourselves, right, like just showing some sort of empathy, the way that a mentor would to, to the hero in the hero’s journey. And we’re talking Obi Wan Kenobi to Luke Skywalker. haymitch to Katniss Everdeen. You know, the, yeah. I mean, you know, the teachers in Harry Potter act as mentors, mentors to the students, right to help them get better. And, and so there’s always somebody in our lives that so I’m sorry, I’m going a little off track here. But there’s always somebody in our life that is helping us improve and get better.

 

32:31

So guys, as Seth has said, the fewer words, the bigger impact. So be very conscious about the word content you have left in your web page, don’t stop it with words, because a first time reader may not be invested in you and your content, and he may just decide to drop off.

 

32:44

Yeah, so one of the examples I give is, you need it. Like, you need to find out if somebody has a headache, so you can sell them aspirin, essentially. Right? And if they come there, and they’re and you’re like, do you have a headache? They’re like, No, well, then they’re probably not your customer, right? Like, or you’re not talking about the problem in the right way. You’re saying does your elbow hurt? When really You mean it? You know, do you have a headache? You know, there’s, that can be a problem in communication. But again, that that’s a lack of understanding of who the customer is, and what they really need. So that’s a different problem than what storytelling would solve for them.

 

33:20

Oh, right. So Seth, could you share with us one Fun fact that you really enjoy about neuroscience and psychology?

 

33:25

There are so many. So I think one of the things that I think is most interesting is that they found that when a storyteller is telling a story, and the audience is engaged, that the brainwaves of the storyteller, and the brainwaves of the audience actually synchronize Whoa, right. So cool. Yeah. It’s like trippy science fiction type stuff, right? Like, stuff we just didn’t know until science started poking around in there and trying to go, well, what’s actually happening here? Yeah, and so they did this study where they hooked up the storytellers brain and the brains of of a pretty large audience. I think it was like 1000 people to all these diodes. And they just kind of watched the brain frequencies and the person started telling the story, and it was really engaging. And they just started watching them all synchronized. And there’s a actually a great video where the, the neuroscientist, I think he was doing the experiment talked about this, he said, it’s like, having a bunch of metronomes and then they’re all off time. And slowly over time, they just start getting in sync with one another. And, and so it doesn’t happen instantly. It just it takes a little bit of time. But eventually they’re all like all going Tick tock tick tock together. And so that’s that’s a very powerful concept and and a little bit trippy. And so that’s, I think one of my favorite concepts of what we’ve learned about neuroscience and storytelling, so thank

 

34:53

you for blowing my mind. So but if the listeners only remember one thing from today’s conversation, well, we like Get to be

 

35:00

that story is more powerful than, than we realize. And, and so using it, using it effectively can really help you, you know, build your startup build your brand. And, and, and also create an amazing culture in your startup, you know, so it’s not just uh, it works in a lot of different areas, it’s not just a thing you do, you know, for movies or, you know, that crazy uncle comes over and tells you hilarious stories, you know, it’s it’s a way of transferring information. It’s a way of connecting with with humans and, and your audience. And I think all of those things are immensely important to new companies that are, you know, getting off the ground and finding their way in the world.

 

35:50

So Seth, how can the listeners get in contact with you if they need your help?

 

35:54

Just go to story fi agency. COMM Storify is s t o r IFY agency.com. And

 

36:04

there’s a schedule a call button or something there and you can, we can schedule a quick 15 minute call and see if we’re a good fit.

 

36:12

So Seth, thank you for joining me today and sharing all your stories. My mind is definitely blown. Thank you.

 

36:18

You’re welcome. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

 

36:21

guys. Thank you for joining me and Stefan today’s episode, I hope you’ve learned a little bit about the importance of storytelling and the power behind it as well. Remember to download a free chapter of his new book how to hack humans on his episode page on tattoos calm. Now guys to stay up to date with all the latest episodes, tools and resources that make sure to log on to tatio.com that’s tt.com. And even better yet, sign up for our newsletter and you’ll hear from me directly. And as before, if you’ve received any value from the show, then I’d love to get your support. The best way you can show this is to subscribe to the show, leave a review on Apple podcasts and to share the show with somebody who will find it useful as well. That’s all for me today. I’ll see you next time.