[This transcript has been automatically generated by a digital software and will therefore  contain errors and typos. Please kindly take note of this and only rely on the digital transcript for reference.]

00:00

Hey guys and welcome back to the TED your business show. This is your friend and host Ted speaking. On today’s episode we have Michael Haynes or is a b2b business growth strategist who empowers CEOs and senior leaders of service based SMEs with buyer driven strategies and action plans to acquire and retain business b2b clients and drive business growth. Michaels actionable takeaways include the importance of being data driven with your marketing approaches, how to rise above the current environment of content, vomit, and his best tips on extending your reach with influencer marketing and embakasi marketing. Now, Michaels tips are universal to any business. So even if you’re not in the b2b market, this episode will be useful for you as well. So guys, if you’d like to support the show in the best we can do this is to subscribe, leave a review and to share with somebody who find it useful as well. Now it’s a way to say thank you to you guys. If you actually do subscribe and leave a review on Apple podcasts by the end of September, you stand a chance to win $50 worth of gift vouchers from Amazon. one lucky winner will be chosen at random. And now let’s dive right in. Michael, thank you so much for joining us today. So nice to have you here.

 

01:04

Thank you for having me on the show.

 

01:05

Michael, let’s stove a simple icebreaker so we can all get to know you a bit better. Please share with us who is Michael Haynes, where he isn’t working when

 

01:13

I’m not working. Okay, so Michael Haynes when he’s not working. First of all, I reside in beautiful Sydney, Australia, originally from Canada, when I’m not working well, current circumstances aside, we’re in the midst of a lockdown. But those situations aside, just like catching up with friends, um, like to exercise quite regularly. I’m a massive athletics fan. So very much enjoy the the recent Olympics, watching all of that love to travel when we’re able to do so as well. So some of the things around Michael Hanes when he’s not in full work mode.

 

01:52

So Michael, what do you enjoy most about the Tokyo Olympics this year,

 

01:55

what I enjoy about Tokyo Olympics this year, I’m again a massive track and field fan. So there was some some of my favorite events were really good. Men’s and Women’s 100 meter finals were quite spectacular, a men’s women’s 400 meter hurdles, which world records reset, were quite good. And in those particular events, I watched those athletes quite closely. I’m big fans of Rob Benjamin of us and the American female hurdler, Dylan, Mohammed and Teddy McLaughlin. So watch him a lot on social media, their blogs, etc. So it’s really good to watch them in action and see how everything has been coming to life on the big stage.

 

02:35

Now, Michael, I know you originally from Toronto. So how did you end up in Sydney? And how did you start your business this innovate grow?

 

02:42

Okay, so how I ended up here in Sydney, all the way from Toronto, um, one of my big passions is travel. I’ve always loved traveling. And it was always one of my missions, right from out of MBA school to live and work overseas. And so I’ve been here in Australia for quite some time, in terms of what I do right now. So I’m an SME business growth specialists. So my focus and passion is all about working with small and medium sized businesses, how they can grow those businesses and have the impact growth and impact that they seek. And I focus on helping service based companies. So your professional service firms, it telco transportation firms, as examples in terms of how they can acquire, retain and grow through getting business clients. So I operate, I focused on working with SMEs operating in the business to business context, or b2b as it’s commonly referred to.

 

03:35

So Michael, in your own words, could you explain to us who are your ideal clients,

 

03:40

so my ideal client, as I said, our service based organization, so your professional service firms, so that could be accountants, lawyers, engineers, designers are specialists, consultants, it firms, telecommunications companies, financial service company, transportation company, so companies that are offering services and solutions to other businesses. In terms of small and medium sized businesses, I would say typically, I tend to do a lot of work with companies in that 10 to 100 and 100. Person staff in terms of number, I guess, 2 million to 20 million if we’re going to talk in terms of revenue. So that’s kind of the end that I I tend to typically deal with, and working with the CEOs and business owners of those firms and their senior leadership teams, in terms of how they’re going to build and grow their businesses, again, through the b2b sector.

 

04:33

Know, Michael, you’re an expert in this area. So good to have your input on this. What do entrepreneurs tend to get wrong in the b2b marketing context?

 

04:41

Okay, great question Ted. So, first of all, in terms of marketing, that in and of itself, I find that term a problematic because in terms of marketing, you need to be doing strategic marketing. And strategic marketing is taking a very data driven approach by which you are what I call listening Getting an in depth understanding on three levels, understanding your company itself, which I call listening to you, really understanding your goals, objectives, what you’re trying to achieve, listening to the market. So really understanding in terms of both industries and geographic markets that you’re operating. What are the trends? What are the developments? You know, what are the economic conditions? What are some of the broad client customer needs within those industries and geographic markets that you’re currently serving, looking to serve? having an understanding of your customers, you know, what are the customer needs, and in b2b, we need to understand at a buyer at a decision maker level as well, very important, you have that in depth understanding across those three elements that you’re doing on an ongoing basis, which I call listening on an ongoing basis, because that will determine what you need to deliver to your clients, how you need to deliver how you need to promote engage. And so often, I find one of the problems is that there’s not enough time spent in getting that in depth understanding across your industries, markets, customers, slash buyers, because that determines everything that you do within your organization. So it’s really about having that strategic view. That’s really quite critical. And that’s one of the things I find often many small, medium businesses miss that they’re not doing enough listening. Secondly, is that they’re often not, they’re often focusing on tactics, very tactical, jumping on the latest, oh, I’m doing social media. They might be focusing on event, they’re being very tactical, but it’s not strategic. covet, it’s not being driven by that listening across your industry, customer market, and that that buyer level. So those are some of the two key things I find with regards to small and medium sized businesses, in terms of where are, are the some of the gaps.

 

06:46

So guys, as Michael is just shit, you need to have an in depth understanding of your goals, your market and your customers, you should have a firm grasp of these three fundamentals before you actually target any marketing tactics. Otherwise, you may actually be targeting the wrong parts of the market with wrong campaigns. And that could end up wasting a lot of money. So mycoses, we’re talking about the need to be strategic, can you share with us what SMEs doing wrong in terms of the content they’re putting out? And how can you make it more strategic in the sense of being more targeted and suited for their target market?

 

07:16

Okay, so again, one of the problems is that they’ve been finding, there’s been some studies done by the likes of Forrester and Gartner as to what are the needs of b2b buyers. So those decision makers, and there’s been a number of dynamics that have been changing over the past 18 months before this whole pandemic, which would have accelerated some of the characteristics of b2b. First of all, there are a business business decision makers do a lot of independent research on so they will do their own research around the solutions that they’re requiring around the problems are trying to resolve. And so they’re doing their own research before they want to speak with anyone. The problem is, is that there’s been a lot during the past 12 months of what I call content, vomit, a lot of organizations just putting lots of a lot of content out there listicles, how to use all of that. And while business decision makers do need content, what they’re really looking for in this environment, as they’re trying to move forward, is they’re really trying to get sensemaking and roadmapping. So they really want to make sense of all this content that’s out there. How does it all fit together for their particular business? And what does it mean in terms of how they move forward? So your content really needs to be around that what I call sense making and roadmapping. But again, Ted, it has to be tied back to what are the needs and priorities based on what’s happening with those industries, markets, and those buyers that you’re focusing on? need to be very, again, strategic in alignment with what the needs of the markets, customers, and industries that you’re serving?

 

08:48

So Michael, could you actually share some tips or resources in how an entrepreneur can actually make your content more strategic and targeted?

 

08:55

I’m so sure. So one of the first things and in terms of your content, and in terms of your whole business plan, your whole growth plan, one of the first things you really should be thinking about it from that perspective, in terms of how you’re going to serve, you know that your current your current clients and customers and those you may want to get. The first starting point is potentially where you have current clients and customers is you should be having discussions with those decision makers within your current client customers to understand where are they at right now? What are their priorities? What are their key objectives, key challenges? What are they trying to achieve? Very important that you get that understanding and feedback from your current clients, from the decision makers in your current clients, because that will really give you a strong understanding of the kinds of content that they need, you know, how you need to be serving them and what you need to be providing to them. And you can do that through potentially depth interviews, having a client workshops with your clients, be in person or virtual are two ways of how you can be having some of those meaningful strategic discussions with your current customers. Another good source of information in terms of game that listening understand what’s going on is your industry and professional associations for those industries that you’re going to be targeting your industry and professional associations will have a lot of often they will have a lot of your own publications, research reports, which tells you what’s going on within those industries within those geographic markets, they will often have things like various kinds of events and webinars again, which will be very good for you to get a strong handle on what are the priorities, needs and requirements within those industries, within potential customers and clients within those industries. So your industry and professional associations, their publications, their events, webinars, are also great forms of intelligent insights. And then a third source would be doing some of your online research and trying to look for the likes of you know, market research reports, which often you can find online, often, many of your market research firms and your consulting firm will have executive summary reports of what are the trends and what’s happening in the various industries and geographic markets. So those are some three practical sources that small, medium sized businesses should be tapping into as part of getting that industry market customer analysis and understanding.

 

11:15

Thanks, Michael. So let’s say we have the content aspect down, how do we actually reach out to the CEOs or senior SME leaders to get in touch with them, and to convince them to work with you as a customer? Well, again, you

 

11:29

have to do your research, you really have to understand those those organizations, what are they trying to achieve? What are their goals and objectives? And then, you know, how can you best deliver value in terms of advice, insights, recommendations, to help them achieve those objectives. So that is where your content may come in, in terms of providing and that could provide the right kind of content that they are using and seeking. So that could be white papers. It could be video, it could be doing webinars could be potentially doing masterclass. But it’s around providing those advice, insights, recommendations, what you want to be providing, delivering value upfront in terms of advice, insight, and, and providing some of that roadmapping and guidance, providing that kind of content upfront. That is how you’re going to deliver some value first, and then use that as the basis of conversation to initiate and have conversations.

 

12:24

So what have you personally done over the years that you found was effective?

 

12:28

I’m so very much I’m very much I very much practice what I preach. So I’m very big on doing a lot of listening. So I am a member of number, a number of industry and professional associations, I do a lot of the online research, I’m always talking to my clients as well. And putting a tried to be putting out content as well out there, again, very grounded in round advice, insights and information recommendations. And making sure I’m making it visible where my prospective audiences to where my buyers are seeking for information. So that will be on the likes of LinkedIn. From a social media standpoint, I write for various publications, business publications, such as inside small business in Australia and dynamic business in Australia, because that has a strong readership of SME leaders. There are various SEO peer advisory groups that I do presentations to, to do some of that roadmapping to so the likes of the CEO Institute, for example, here in Australia, what I will be doing those presentation, so very much around delivering advice, insights, where leaders are looking for information, podcasts, such as yours, and others, where business agents are going for guidance. Again, providing information, insights, advice, being visible, again, where people are looking for information, where my target audience is looking for information. So

 

13:47

Michael, let’s say we’re putting all this information, we’re reaching out to the SMEs, the senior leaders, what advice would you have for an entrepreneur to actually make it easier for their clients to say yes to them? How do we give them the confidence that we are the right people to work with them?

 

14:02

Well, again, it goes back to you really have to understand your clients, you need to understand your target client, who are those decision makers, you know, what are their priorities? What are they trying to what are they focusing on? What are some of their key objectives, and then again, it’s about providing them with advice, recommendations, that will demonstrate how you are going to be able to help them achieve their objectives, how your organization how your company would work with them. So your initial starting point might be again, around some kind of content, that’s very advice and recommendation in nature, which you might send to them, then it’s then to have that initial outreach with the decision maker to initiate conversation, then you’re going to look to have subsequent conversations and discussions with that organization. And again, those discussions should be around again, providing that roadmap, what how are you going to work with them? How are you going to help them achieve their objective and helping To help in demonstrating and developing a mutual what I call a mutual action plan. So, you know, if you were if you’re let’s say it’s an IT firm, for example, and you provide managed services to them. So meeting with decision makers to discuss, okay, what would be the action plan? How would we be working together? How would my company as an IT service provider, we’ll be supporting and helping in terms of delivering those it manage and IT strategy services really kind of laying up that roadmap that pathway so that the decision makers really have confidence and understanding as to how you’re going to help them achieve their objectives?

 

15:35

So Michael, what advice would you have for a new entrepreneur and how they can grow their business, even on a shoestring budget? Where are the avenues you can tap upon?

 

15:44

In terms of well, first of all, again, starting from your current client base would be definitely one key area that you want to be focusing on, again, understanding your current clients and understand what are their needs, and identifying where the gaps are for upsell and cross sell opportunities. In terms of other growth strategies, two strategies that I do recommend that small and medium sized businesses should be utilizing are influencer marketing, and advocacy marketing. So influencer marketing in a b2b context, it’s really again about understanding for your target audience, who are the decision makers. So for to give an example, let’s say you’re targeting again, the IT industry, and you’re focusing, let’s say on it transformation, you’re targeting firms, you’re providing, looking, you’re targeting firms in the IoT space. So what you want to be doing is understanding who are the leaders within that the go twos that are looked upon by your target audience? Who do they go to for insights, advice and recommendations. So that might be key. senior people within the industry associations, there might be those who are reading the blogs and podcasts on it topics are looked upon as the go twos, you want to approach those people and see how you can potentially collaborate with them to create content. So you might be a guest on their podcast writing on their blog, you might do a co event together like a masterclass or a workshop. So to allow you to gain access into their, their their audience base, and to also get the credibility and endorsement by working with that influencer. So it’s about identifying who are those go to so often, good examples are bloggers, podcasts, industry and professional association, those who are often heading up and presenting at conferences, key events, aligning and seeing how you can work with those people for a mutual Win win in terms of being a guest co creating content join events, to gain that, to gain that reach, visibility and credibility. The second strategy is advocacy, marketing and advocacy marketing is all about really championing those clients and potential strategic partners who really are big advocates of your company. And so taking your clients, again, getting those clients to be a champion on your behalf. So that could be through case studies, through testimonials, you might get them to present at your event. So if you’re doing an online event in person event, getting them to present as well. Having your clients serve as client references, it’s very common now, that often when you’re dealing with a prospect, they want to talk to one or two of your, your current clients or previous clients to understand what it’s like working with you having a pool of clients that you can call upon to be your references is a great form of endorsement to help further drive growth referral programs as well to generate referrals. So you have and you set up processes to make it very easy for for referrals to be made are another great way because referrals, word of mouth is still a very big part of the business buyers decision making processes. So those are two strategies influencer marketing again, which is about working with and finding those go to experts, that your clients and prospects utilize for advice, recommendations. And then secondly, advocacy marketing, which is really working with your current clients, though, that really love you and your company in various ways through a testimonials, case studies, referral programs, references, again to help that whole acquisition process and getting that legitimacy and trust, which is the key component in winning b2b sales.

 

19:42

So guys, as Michael just shared, don’t just focus on your existing clients. Think about influencer marketing, think about advocacy, marketing. Reach out to the thought leaders, the senior members of your industry and get in touch with them, work with them, collaborate with them, whether it’s on their podcast, their events, their workshops. seminars, this helps you gain access to their audience. And by working with them, you’re getting endorsed by them as well. also focus on your existing clients, get them to be your biggest advocates, invite them to collaborate with you invite them to your workshops, your podcast, your seminars. And this way, it’s actually a lot clearer for your new customers to see what it’d be like to work with you. Now, Michael, when you’re talking about influencer marketing, I know you’re not necessarily talking about the influencers who are living on tik tok or Instagram. So could you clarify this point a little bit more for the listeners.

 

20:31

So again, when we’re talking in a b2b context about influencer marketing, we’re talking about, you know, really reaching out to those industry leaders, those experts, it is a very different dynamic than in a business to consumer context, when you’re talking about, you know, very famous people, personalities, often in a b2b context, we’re talking about who are the industry experts in your world. So for example, let’s say you are dealing with a certain element within let’s say, the biotechnology space, for example, it is about you know, 99%, but there are certain people who are going to be leading experts in that, you know, biotechnology space, that are speaking at their conferences, you’re probably the ones that are heavily involved in the industry, professional association, they be speaking on those relevant podcasts. So these are very niche. And these are your your subject matter experts or go twos, which 99.99% of the population would have no clue who these people are, but within your particular industry within your particular niche. These are the people that are often writing in your industry and professional association, publication, they’re speaking at the annual conferences at these events, they’re speaking on those very niche podcasts and blogs. So these are these are this is very nice. These are industry experts very much to go to within your industry, potentially your industry and your geographic market as well. That again, 99% of the people that have no clue who they are so we’re not talking to Kim Kardashian. LeBron James, we’re not talking you know, the Usain Bolt type this is very about very nice within your particular industry. Nice. Your specialization? Who are those go twos would you typically find through through the social media, collective LinkedIn, through industry associations, through those niche blogs, podcasts, it could be certain rivers subject matter experts within universities. So this is very different in a b2b context, where we’re talking really about experts, very nice, very specialized experts, they’re very highly looked upon highly regarded their social media followings. Ted might be very small, maybe only even two or 3000, for which I think the term is technically there are micro or nano influencers, but in terms within your industry, they’re highly looked upon, because industry leaders, that’s who they go to, for information. They’re the ones that are reading those white papers presenting at those conferences. You know, they’re often being quoted, and you see regularity in your industry, professional associations there at your industry and professional association events. So again, it’s very niche, highly expertise, and known within your your world of your specialization and expertise. So that is the distinction as opposed to nbtc, where we’re talking big personalities, a massive social media following. And there’s often a lot of paid engagement to do so b2b. It’s very much around with nice people, and how do you work with them for Win Win Ted, because often, these specialists are often looking for access to clients, and I’m getting their, their brand and visibility being made known as well. So there’s opportunities to deliver value to their audiences by writing a blog paper together, co creating content being on their podcast. So it’s often looking for mutual Win Win gain by working with these nice specialized

 

23:57

experts, so guys, in a b2b context, the influences who are looking for and not necessarily the famous individuals You see, who have millions of followers, so it’s about quality instead of quantity here, while the influencer may only have about two to 3000 followers, but if these two to 3000 followers on SME leaders, and guess what, that’s the market you’re looking for now, Michael, you actually co wrote a book called Listen, innovate grow as well. Could you share with us about this book? And what do you hope to achieve with it?

 

24:24

So listen, innovate grow is a book that has been written for SMEs and for startups operating in a business to business context. And it goes into great detail as to how you can acquire, retain business clients and grow your business by the three key activities that are all all b2b companies, but this is written particularly within the context for small and medium sizes, the three key activities that you need to undertake, which is listening, which I’ve spoken about before but listening on those three levels, listening to you listening to the market, listening to customers, And your buyers, which gives you clarity as to where to focus where you need to focus your efforts and your resources. Then innovate is about business innovation, which is about making new introductions and or improvements across your business in an in conjunction to meet those industry market customer needs, for which there are five kinds of business innovation, product innovation, service, innovation, organizational innovation, process innovation, and marketing innovation. And it’s by making those adjustments in terms of making those introductions and improvement in your organization, which is really how you’re going to win how you’re going to meet the needs of those current and prospective customers. And then grow is about how, what are the strategies you use to grow your business for which there are various, what we call growth pathways? And then how do you maintain that growth. And that’s where things like financial management, people management and change management come in. So listen, innovate grow are the three key activities which organizations need to be doing on an ongoing basis. And Ted, this book talks about in a b2b context, and in very actionable, yet strategic practical ways that startups and small medium businesses can undertake those three key activities on a sustainable basis to acquire, retain, and grow those business clients and get sustainable, profitable growth.

 

26:17

Now, Michael, could you share a little bit about your quarter as well? What are his expertise?

 

26:22

So my, my co author is Gareth Chandler, who is also an SM he, he’s the managing director of the evolved group, which is a market research, consulting and also market research technology company. So I’ve worked with Gareth, because I’ve known Gareth for a long time, and we’ve worked on a number of projects. And I’ve worked with him because he is an SME as well. And he started from a two person operation to now 50 plus operating globally as well. So he had a lot of knowledge and insights bring us to what you need to do to listen, innovate and grow business, because he’s done so on a bigger level on a big level as well. So bringing that practical experience and advice was invaluable. what’s what’s very fantastic,

 

27:09

Michael, this is only remember one thing from today, well, we would like it to be, I would

 

27:13

say if they only remember one thing is that I would say you need to start off, you’re listening and listening to at a buyer level is quite critical. Um, while I’m going to cheat. So there’s two things you need to be listening on a buyer level. And by listening on a buyer level, it will answer the three key questions that your strategy needs to have, what you need to deliver to your clients, slash buyers, how you need to deliver them in terms of service support, customer experience, and how you promote and engage in them. And by doing that in depth listening, you’ll know where to focus, which will enable you to answer those three core questions because at the end of the day, those are the three questions that you really need to understand for each of the industries and markets that you’re serving in order to build and grow your business.

 

28:02

So Michael, how can our listeners get in contact with you, they need your help.

 

28:06

So if you’d like to get in contact with me, I’ll go to my website, listen, innovate, grow calm. And so there you’ll find lots of content in terms of articles, videos, blogs, about b2b strategies and approaches. You also find out about my various service offerings, including my new mastermind group, the empower mastermind group as well. So that’s Listen, innovate, grow calm. Michael, thank

 

28:33

you so much for joining us today.

 

28:34

Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed our discussion.

 

28:37

guys. Thank you so much for joining me and Michael for today’s episode. I hope you have some new strategies on how you intend to grow your business. So guys, if you enjoyed today’s episode, and you’d like to show your support, and don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review and share this with somebody who will find it useful as well. And as a way to say thank you to you guys. you subscribe and leave a review on Apple podcast by the end of September, then you may stand a chance to win $50 worth of gift vouchers from Amazon. one lucky winner will be chosen at the end of the month. That’s all for me today. I’ll see you next time.

[This transcript has been automatically generated by a digital software and will therefore  contain errors and typos. Please kindly take note of this and only rely on the digital transcript for reference.]

00:00

Hey guys and welcome back to the TED your business show. This is your friend and host Ted speaking. On today’s episode we have Michael Haynes or is a b2b business growth strategist who empowers CEOs and senior leaders of service based SMEs with buyer driven strategies and action plans to acquire and retain business b2b clients and drive business growth. Michaels actionable takeaways include the importance of being data driven with your marketing approaches, how to rise above the current environment of content, vomit, and his best tips on extending your reach with influencer marketing and embakasi marketing. Now, Michaels tips are universal to any business. So even if you’re not in the b2b market, this episode will be useful for you as well. So guys, if you’d like to support the show in the best we can do this is to subscribe, leave a review and to share with somebody who find it useful as well. Now it’s a way to say thank you to you guys. If you actually do subscribe and leave a review on Apple podcasts by the end of September, you stand a chance to win $50 worth of gift vouchers from Amazon. one lucky winner will be chosen at random. And now let’s dive right in. Michael, thank you so much for joining us today. So nice to have you here.

 

01:04

Thank you for having me on the show.

 

01:05

Michael, let’s stove a simple icebreaker so we can all get to know you a bit better. Please share with us who is Michael Haynes, where he isn’t working when

 

01:13

I’m not working. Okay, so Michael Haynes when he’s not working. First of all, I reside in beautiful Sydney, Australia, originally from Canada, when I’m not working well, current circumstances aside, we’re in the midst of a lockdown. But those situations aside, just like catching up with friends, um, like to exercise quite regularly. I’m a massive athletics fan. So very much enjoy the the recent Olympics, watching all of that love to travel when we’re able to do so as well. So some of the things around Michael Hanes when he’s not in full work mode.

 

01:52

So Michael, what do you enjoy most about the Tokyo Olympics this year,

 

01:55

what I enjoy about Tokyo Olympics this year, I’m again a massive track and field fan. So there was some some of my favorite events were really good. Men’s and Women’s 100 meter finals were quite spectacular, a men’s women’s 400 meter hurdles, which world records reset, were quite good. And in those particular events, I watched those athletes quite closely. I’m big fans of Rob Benjamin of us and the American female hurdler, Dylan, Mohammed and Teddy McLaughlin. So watch him a lot on social media, their blogs, etc. So it’s really good to watch them in action and see how everything has been coming to life on the big stage.

 

02:35

Now, Michael, I know you originally from Toronto. So how did you end up in Sydney? And how did you start your business this innovate grow?

 

02:42

Okay, so how I ended up here in Sydney, all the way from Toronto, um, one of my big passions is travel. I’ve always loved traveling. And it was always one of my missions, right from out of MBA school to live and work overseas. And so I’ve been here in Australia for quite some time, in terms of what I do right now. So I’m an SME business growth specialists. So my focus and passion is all about working with small and medium sized businesses, how they can grow those businesses and have the impact growth and impact that they seek. And I focus on helping service based companies. So your professional service firms, it telco transportation firms, as examples in terms of how they can acquire, retain and grow through getting business clients. So I operate, I focused on working with SMEs operating in the business to business context, or b2b as it’s commonly referred to.

 

03:35

So Michael, in your own words, could you explain to us who are your ideal clients,

 

03:40

so my ideal client, as I said, our service based organization, so your professional service firms, so that could be accountants, lawyers, engineers, designers are specialists, consultants, it firms, telecommunications companies, financial service company, transportation company, so companies that are offering services and solutions to other businesses. In terms of small and medium sized businesses, I would say typically, I tend to do a lot of work with companies in that 10 to 100 and 100. Person staff in terms of number, I guess, 2 million to 20 million if we’re going to talk in terms of revenue. So that’s kind of the end that I I tend to typically deal with, and working with the CEOs and business owners of those firms and their senior leadership teams, in terms of how they’re going to build and grow their businesses, again, through the b2b sector.

 

04:33

Know, Michael, you’re an expert in this area. So good to have your input on this. What do entrepreneurs tend to get wrong in the b2b marketing context?

 

04:41

Okay, great question Ted. So, first of all, in terms of marketing, that in and of itself, I find that term a problematic because in terms of marketing, you need to be doing strategic marketing. And strategic marketing is taking a very data driven approach by which you are what I call listening Getting an in depth understanding on three levels, understanding your company itself, which I call listening to you, really understanding your goals, objectives, what you’re trying to achieve, listening to the market. So really understanding in terms of both industries and geographic markets that you’re operating. What are the trends? What are the developments? You know, what are the economic conditions? What are some of the broad client customer needs within those industries and geographic markets that you’re currently serving, looking to serve? having an understanding of your customers, you know, what are the customer needs, and in b2b, we need to understand at a buyer at a decision maker level as well, very important, you have that in depth understanding across those three elements that you’re doing on an ongoing basis, which I call listening on an ongoing basis, because that will determine what you need to deliver to your clients, how you need to deliver how you need to promote engage. And so often, I find one of the problems is that there’s not enough time spent in getting that in depth understanding across your industries, markets, customers, slash buyers, because that determines everything that you do within your organization. So it’s really about having that strategic view. That’s really quite critical. And that’s one of the things I find often many small, medium businesses miss that they’re not doing enough listening. Secondly, is that they’re often not, they’re often focusing on tactics, very tactical, jumping on the latest, oh, I’m doing social media. They might be focusing on event, they’re being very tactical, but it’s not strategic. covet, it’s not being driven by that listening across your industry, customer market, and that that buyer level. So those are some of the two key things I find with regards to small and medium sized businesses, in terms of where are, are the some of the gaps.

 

06:46

So guys, as Michael is just shit, you need to have an in depth understanding of your goals, your market and your customers, you should have a firm grasp of these three fundamentals before you actually target any marketing tactics. Otherwise, you may actually be targeting the wrong parts of the market with wrong campaigns. And that could end up wasting a lot of money. So mycoses, we’re talking about the need to be strategic, can you share with us what SMEs doing wrong in terms of the content they’re putting out? And how can you make it more strategic in the sense of being more targeted and suited for their target market?

 

07:16

Okay, so again, one of the problems is that they’ve been finding, there’s been some studies done by the likes of Forrester and Gartner as to what are the needs of b2b buyers. So those decision makers, and there’s been a number of dynamics that have been changing over the past 18 months before this whole pandemic, which would have accelerated some of the characteristics of b2b. First of all, there are a business business decision makers do a lot of independent research on so they will do their own research around the solutions that they’re requiring around the problems are trying to resolve. And so they’re doing their own research before they want to speak with anyone. The problem is, is that there’s been a lot during the past 12 months of what I call content, vomit, a lot of organizations just putting lots of a lot of content out there listicles, how to use all of that. And while business decision makers do need content, what they’re really looking for in this environment, as they’re trying to move forward, is they’re really trying to get sensemaking and roadmapping. So they really want to make sense of all this content that’s out there. How does it all fit together for their particular business? And what does it mean in terms of how they move forward? So your content really needs to be around that what I call sense making and roadmapping. But again, Ted, it has to be tied back to what are the needs and priorities based on what’s happening with those industries, markets, and those buyers that you’re focusing on? need to be very, again, strategic in alignment with what the needs of the markets, customers, and industries that you’re serving?

 

08:48

So Michael, could you actually share some tips or resources in how an entrepreneur can actually make your content more strategic and targeted?

 

08:55

I’m so sure. So one of the first things and in terms of your content, and in terms of your whole business plan, your whole growth plan, one of the first things you really should be thinking about it from that perspective, in terms of how you’re going to serve, you know that your current your current clients and customers and those you may want to get. The first starting point is potentially where you have current clients and customers is you should be having discussions with those decision makers within your current client customers to understand where are they at right now? What are their priorities? What are their key objectives, key challenges? What are they trying to achieve? Very important that you get that understanding and feedback from your current clients, from the decision makers in your current clients, because that will really give you a strong understanding of the kinds of content that they need, you know, how you need to be serving them and what you need to be providing to them. And you can do that through potentially depth interviews, having a client workshops with your clients, be in person or virtual are two ways of how you can be having some of those meaningful strategic discussions with your current customers. Another good source of information in terms of game that listening understand what’s going on is your industry and professional associations for those industries that you’re going to be targeting your industry and professional associations will have a lot of often they will have a lot of your own publications, research reports, which tells you what’s going on within those industries within those geographic markets, they will often have things like various kinds of events and webinars again, which will be very good for you to get a strong handle on what are the priorities, needs and requirements within those industries, within potential customers and clients within those industries. So your industry and professional associations, their publications, their events, webinars, are also great forms of intelligent insights. And then a third source would be doing some of your online research and trying to look for the likes of you know, market research reports, which often you can find online, often, many of your market research firms and your consulting firm will have executive summary reports of what are the trends and what’s happening in the various industries and geographic markets. So those are some three practical sources that small, medium sized businesses should be tapping into as part of getting that industry market customer analysis and understanding.

 

11:15

Thanks, Michael. So let’s say we have the content aspect down, how do we actually reach out to the CEOs or senior SME leaders to get in touch with them, and to convince them to work with you as a customer? Well, again, you

 

11:29

have to do your research, you really have to understand those those organizations, what are they trying to achieve? What are their goals and objectives? And then, you know, how can you best deliver value in terms of advice, insights, recommendations, to help them achieve those objectives. So that is where your content may come in, in terms of providing and that could provide the right kind of content that they are using and seeking. So that could be white papers. It could be video, it could be doing webinars could be potentially doing masterclass. But it’s around providing those advice, insights, recommendations, what you want to be providing, delivering value upfront in terms of advice, insight, and, and providing some of that roadmapping and guidance, providing that kind of content upfront. That is how you’re going to deliver some value first, and then use that as the basis of conversation to initiate and have conversations.

 

12:24

So what have you personally done over the years that you found was effective?

 

12:28

I’m so very much I’m very much I very much practice what I preach. So I’m very big on doing a lot of listening. So I am a member of number, a number of industry and professional associations, I do a lot of the online research, I’m always talking to my clients as well. And putting a tried to be putting out content as well out there, again, very grounded in round advice, insights and information recommendations. And making sure I’m making it visible where my prospective audiences to where my buyers are seeking for information. So that will be on the likes of LinkedIn. From a social media standpoint, I write for various publications, business publications, such as inside small business in Australia and dynamic business in Australia, because that has a strong readership of SME leaders. There are various SEO peer advisory groups that I do presentations to, to do some of that roadmapping to so the likes of the CEO Institute, for example, here in Australia, what I will be doing those presentation, so very much around delivering advice, insights, where leaders are looking for information, podcasts, such as yours, and others, where business agents are going for guidance. Again, providing information, insights, advice, being visible, again, where people are looking for information, where my target audience is looking for information. So

 

13:47

Michael, let’s say we’re putting all this information, we’re reaching out to the SMEs, the senior leaders, what advice would you have for an entrepreneur to actually make it easier for their clients to say yes to them? How do we give them the confidence that we are the right people to work with them?

 

14:02

Well, again, it goes back to you really have to understand your clients, you need to understand your target client, who are those decision makers, you know, what are their priorities? What are they trying to what are they focusing on? What are some of their key objectives, and then again, it’s about providing them with advice, recommendations, that will demonstrate how you are going to be able to help them achieve their objectives, how your organization how your company would work with them. So your initial starting point might be again, around some kind of content, that’s very advice and recommendation in nature, which you might send to them, then it’s then to have that initial outreach with the decision maker to initiate conversation, then you’re going to look to have subsequent conversations and discussions with that organization. And again, those discussions should be around again, providing that roadmap, what how are you going to work with them? How are you going to help them achieve their objective and helping To help in demonstrating and developing a mutual what I call a mutual action plan. So, you know, if you were if you’re let’s say it’s an IT firm, for example, and you provide managed services to them. So meeting with decision makers to discuss, okay, what would be the action plan? How would we be working together? How would my company as an IT service provider, we’ll be supporting and helping in terms of delivering those it manage and IT strategy services really kind of laying up that roadmap that pathway so that the decision makers really have confidence and understanding as to how you’re going to help them achieve their objectives?

 

15:35

So Michael, what advice would you have for a new entrepreneur and how they can grow their business, even on a shoestring budget? Where are the avenues you can tap upon?

 

15:44

In terms of well, first of all, again, starting from your current client base would be definitely one key area that you want to be focusing on, again, understanding your current clients and understand what are their needs, and identifying where the gaps are for upsell and cross sell opportunities. In terms of other growth strategies, two strategies that I do recommend that small and medium sized businesses should be utilizing are influencer marketing, and advocacy marketing. So influencer marketing in a b2b context, it’s really again about understanding for your target audience, who are the decision makers. So for to give an example, let’s say you’re targeting again, the IT industry, and you’re focusing, let’s say on it transformation, you’re targeting firms, you’re providing, looking, you’re targeting firms in the IoT space. So what you want to be doing is understanding who are the leaders within that the go twos that are looked upon by your target audience? Who do they go to for insights, advice and recommendations. So that might be key. senior people within the industry associations, there might be those who are reading the blogs and podcasts on it topics are looked upon as the go twos, you want to approach those people and see how you can potentially collaborate with them to create content. So you might be a guest on their podcast writing on their blog, you might do a co event together like a masterclass or a workshop. So to allow you to gain access into their, their their audience base, and to also get the credibility and endorsement by working with that influencer. So it’s about identifying who are those go to so often, good examples are bloggers, podcasts, industry and professional association, those who are often heading up and presenting at conferences, key events, aligning and seeing how you can work with those people for a mutual Win win in terms of being a guest co creating content join events, to gain that, to gain that reach, visibility and credibility. The second strategy is advocacy, marketing and advocacy marketing is all about really championing those clients and potential strategic partners who really are big advocates of your company. And so taking your clients, again, getting those clients to be a champion on your behalf. So that could be through case studies, through testimonials, you might get them to present at your event. So if you’re doing an online event in person event, getting them to present as well. Having your clients serve as client references, it’s very common now, that often when you’re dealing with a prospect, they want to talk to one or two of your, your current clients or previous clients to understand what it’s like working with you having a pool of clients that you can call upon to be your references is a great form of endorsement to help further drive growth referral programs as well to generate referrals. So you have and you set up processes to make it very easy for for referrals to be made are another great way because referrals, word of mouth is still a very big part of the business buyers decision making processes. So those are two strategies influencer marketing again, which is about working with and finding those go to experts, that your clients and prospects utilize for advice, recommendations. And then secondly, advocacy marketing, which is really working with your current clients, though, that really love you and your company in various ways through a testimonials, case studies, referral programs, references, again to help that whole acquisition process and getting that legitimacy and trust, which is the key component in winning b2b sales.

 

19:42

So guys, as Michael just shared, don’t just focus on your existing clients. Think about influencer marketing, think about advocacy, marketing. Reach out to the thought leaders, the senior members of your industry and get in touch with them, work with them, collaborate with them, whether it’s on their podcast, their events, their workshops. seminars, this helps you gain access to their audience. And by working with them, you’re getting endorsed by them as well. also focus on your existing clients, get them to be your biggest advocates, invite them to collaborate with you invite them to your workshops, your podcast, your seminars. And this way, it’s actually a lot clearer for your new customers to see what it’d be like to work with you. Now, Michael, when you’re talking about influencer marketing, I know you’re not necessarily talking about the influencers who are living on tik tok or Instagram. So could you clarify this point a little bit more for the listeners.

 

20:31

So again, when we’re talking in a b2b context about influencer marketing, we’re talking about, you know, really reaching out to those industry leaders, those experts, it is a very different dynamic than in a business to consumer context, when you’re talking about, you know, very famous people, personalities, often in a b2b context, we’re talking about who are the industry experts in your world. So for example, let’s say you are dealing with a certain element within let’s say, the biotechnology space, for example, it is about you know, 99%, but there are certain people who are going to be leading experts in that, you know, biotechnology space, that are speaking at their conferences, you’re probably the ones that are heavily involved in the industry, professional association, they be speaking on those relevant podcasts. So these are very niche. And these are your your subject matter experts or go twos, which 99.99% of the population would have no clue who these people are, but within your particular industry within your particular niche. These are the people that are often writing in your industry and professional association, publication, they’re speaking at the annual conferences at these events, they’re speaking on those very niche podcasts and blogs. So these are these are this is very nice. These are industry experts very much to go to within your industry, potentially your industry and your geographic market as well. That again, 99% of the people that have no clue who they are so we’re not talking to Kim Kardashian. LeBron James, we’re not talking you know, the Usain Bolt type this is very about very nice within your particular industry. Nice. Your specialization? Who are those go twos would you typically find through through the social media, collective LinkedIn, through industry associations, through those niche blogs, podcasts, it could be certain rivers subject matter experts within universities. So this is very different in a b2b context, where we’re talking really about experts, very nice, very specialized experts, they’re very highly looked upon highly regarded their social media followings. Ted might be very small, maybe only even two or 3000, for which I think the term is technically there are micro or nano influencers, but in terms within your industry, they’re highly looked upon, because industry leaders, that’s who they go to, for information. They’re the ones that are reading those white papers presenting at those conferences. You know, they’re often being quoted, and you see regularity in your industry, professional associations there at your industry and professional association events. So again, it’s very niche, highly expertise, and known within your your world of your specialization and expertise. So that is the distinction as opposed to nbtc, where we’re talking big personalities, a massive social media following. And there’s often a lot of paid engagement to do so b2b. It’s very much around with nice people, and how do you work with them for Win Win Ted, because often, these specialists are often looking for access to clients, and I’m getting their, their brand and visibility being made known as well. So there’s opportunities to deliver value to their audiences by writing a blog paper together, co creating content being on their podcast. So it’s often looking for mutual Win Win gain by working with these nice specialized

 

23:57

experts, so guys, in a b2b context, the influences who are looking for and not necessarily the famous individuals You see, who have millions of followers, so it’s about quality instead of quantity here, while the influencer may only have about two to 3000 followers, but if these two to 3000 followers on SME leaders, and guess what, that’s the market you’re looking for now, Michael, you actually co wrote a book called Listen, innovate grow as well. Could you share with us about this book? And what do you hope to achieve with it?

 

24:24

So listen, innovate grow is a book that has been written for SMEs and for startups operating in a business to business context. And it goes into great detail as to how you can acquire, retain business clients and grow your business by the three key activities that are all all b2b companies, but this is written particularly within the context for small and medium sizes, the three key activities that you need to undertake, which is listening, which I’ve spoken about before but listening on those three levels, listening to you listening to the market, listening to customers, And your buyers, which gives you clarity as to where to focus where you need to focus your efforts and your resources. Then innovate is about business innovation, which is about making new introductions and or improvements across your business in an in conjunction to meet those industry market customer needs, for which there are five kinds of business innovation, product innovation, service, innovation, organizational innovation, process innovation, and marketing innovation. And it’s by making those adjustments in terms of making those introductions and improvement in your organization, which is really how you’re going to win how you’re going to meet the needs of those current and prospective customers. And then grow is about how, what are the strategies you use to grow your business for which there are various, what we call growth pathways? And then how do you maintain that growth. And that’s where things like financial management, people management and change management come in. So listen, innovate grow are the three key activities which organizations need to be doing on an ongoing basis. And Ted, this book talks about in a b2b context, and in very actionable, yet strategic practical ways that startups and small medium businesses can undertake those three key activities on a sustainable basis to acquire, retain, and grow those business clients and get sustainable, profitable growth.

 

26:17

Now, Michael, could you share a little bit about your quarter as well? What are his expertise?

 

26:22

So my, my co author is Gareth Chandler, who is also an SM he, he’s the managing director of the evolved group, which is a market research, consulting and also market research technology company. So I’ve worked with Gareth, because I’ve known Gareth for a long time, and we’ve worked on a number of projects. And I’ve worked with him because he is an SME as well. And he started from a two person operation to now 50 plus operating globally as well. So he had a lot of knowledge and insights bring us to what you need to do to listen, innovate and grow business, because he’s done so on a bigger level on a big level as well. So bringing that practical experience and advice was invaluable. what’s what’s very fantastic,

 

27:09

Michael, this is only remember one thing from today, well, we would like it to be, I would

 

27:13

say if they only remember one thing is that I would say you need to start off, you’re listening and listening to at a buyer level is quite critical. Um, while I’m going to cheat. So there’s two things you need to be listening on a buyer level. And by listening on a buyer level, it will answer the three key questions that your strategy needs to have, what you need to deliver to your clients, slash buyers, how you need to deliver them in terms of service support, customer experience, and how you promote and engage in them. And by doing that in depth listening, you’ll know where to focus, which will enable you to answer those three core questions because at the end of the day, those are the three questions that you really need to understand for each of the industries and markets that you’re serving in order to build and grow your business.

 

28:02

So Michael, how can our listeners get in contact with you, they need your help.

 

28:06

So if you’d like to get in contact with me, I’ll go to my website, listen, innovate, grow calm. And so there you’ll find lots of content in terms of articles, videos, blogs, about b2b strategies and approaches. You also find out about my various service offerings, including my new mastermind group, the empower mastermind group as well. So that’s Listen, innovate, grow calm. Michael, thank

 

28:33

you so much for joining us today.

 

28:34

Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed our discussion.

 

28:37

guys. Thank you so much for joining me and Michael for today’s episode. I hope you have some new strategies on how you intend to grow your business. So guys, if you enjoyed today’s episode, and you’d like to show your support, and don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review and share this with somebody who will find it useful as well. And as a way to say thank you to you guys. you subscribe and leave a review on Apple podcast by the end of September, then you may stand a chance to win $50 worth of gift vouchers from Amazon. one lucky winner will be chosen at the end of the month. That’s all for me today. I’ll see you next time.